New Year, New Perspectives: Discussing how motivational interviewing and personal goals intertwine in the new year, focusing on setting intentions without stress.Beyond One-Word Summaries: Challenging the concept of summarizing complex ideas or goals into a single word, advocating for a more dimensional approach.The Power of Choice: Exploring the theme of making choices, both in personal life and professional settings, emphasizing autonomy and avoiding unnecessary stress.Navigating Life’s Multiple Paths: The metaphor of multiple paths to the same mountain peak is used to illustrate different approaches to life goals.Integrating Motivational Interviewing in Daily Life: Discussing how motivational interviewing techniques can be applied to personal life, enhancing decision-making processes.Values and Lifestyle Changes: Conversations about how lifestyle changes, like adopting a vegetarian diet, reflect personal values and choices without stress or judgment.Empowerment vs. Sovereignty: Exploring the distinction between empowering others and acknowledging their inherent sovereignty.Universal Expansion through Individual Choices: Delving into a spiritual perspective, suggesting that each individual choice contributes to the expansion of the universe.The Concept of Sovereignty in Communication: Examining how honoring an individual’s sovereignty can enhance communication and personal growth.Setting Intention for Growth: Reflecting on setting intentions for personal growth and healing without necessarily inviting stress or pain into the process.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

 Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin, here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world.

Hi I’m Danielle Cantin. I’m here with Casey Jackson on the communication solution. And we are so excited to be chatting with you. It’s the new year. So I thought we could have some pretty awesome discussions around what that looks like for people.

How are you doing Casey? I am doing well. Thank you. In this new year. First week of the new year. Yeah, it’s, always interesting. What I thought could be a fun thing to kick off is, motivational interviewing is I’ve learned so much over the years about it. And when I apply it, I always think it’s fun to apply it to my personal life.

And there’s a lot of talk in the new year around. What’s your word, what’s your phrase for the year? And that’s always, you know, been in my world anyway for many, many years. And it is kind of funny when I think of it in terms of motivational interviewing. Cause I’m like the ambivalence I have, I can’t commit.

What’s my word? Is it the right word? I don’t know. I think I want this. What’s the phrase. And, it’s a fun thing. I go through every year and I’m like, what would Casey do? Like there’s a way for me to ladder this up to my values somehow, so that I feel more certain about. My mission for the new year. So I was wondering if maybe we could dig into, into that and how maybe you even approached the new year.

Sure. You know, even as you talked about it, you know, I, I don’t know if it’s my rebellious side. I don’t know if what it is, but I just. Don’t, you know, subscribe to the whole one word thing, even when it’s like, just summarize this training in one word. It’s like, no, I don’t want to summarize it one word because it’s way more dimensional than that.

So, so I’m just not going to subscribe to the one word thing. When people have asked about that. The one that that Matt told me about that he’s doing that I think is fascinating is what’s one thing you’re going to stop. In 2024, stop doing what’s one thing you’re going to start doing and what’s one thing you’re going to continue doing that just was an easier way for me to frame it.

So the 1 word thing, it just, it doesn’t fit my psyche very well. Because I just don’t like that limitation. And I think that causes my own reaction and resistance and ambivalence versus going, you know, I want to be thoughtful and and a hole in my thinking around it because. My life is just so dimensional, and try to consolidate into one word.

Just almost in and of itself starts to cause me stress. And it’s just, I’m not into stress as much as possible. There’s enough out there that I don’t want to pull it on myself for no particular reason in a way that’s supposed to be growthful when it feels like it’s constraining is like, but yeah, that’s just not, that doesn’t line up with my values.

So, so that’s kind of the way that I, cause it’s like, maybe I fall in that category because. It always does put a little bit of consternation in my world, which means it might not be That’s it. And that’s why I think for me that I, I like setting intention and it’s something that, you know, John and I have talked about as well, too, over the years, because it was a conversation he had, I had gotten into in terms of, but if we don’t set the goal, if we’re not working towards the goal, and I get nervous about that a bit, because I think it.

There’s so many right ways, you know, when I talk about it in motivation, there’s so many right ways to get to the top of the mountain. You know, if you think of any mountain peak, there’s so many right ways, there’s so many trailheads you can start from. And what I found is that I tend to be in my humanist, I tend to be pretty limited in the right way to get up there.

And I know that I know my ego can get into that, that this is the right way. This is the way I need to do it. And that in of itself starts to create limits. And, and from an MI perspective, it’s what I’ve tried to untangle as a professional. As a therapist. Of not getting caught into my ways the right way, or I’m the expert that the beauty and the journey is there’s so many right ways to get there.

And that for me is very helpful when I set my intention is I know I want to get to the top of the mountain. I know it’s important to me, but I want to allow the fluidity of the journey to be part of the experience as well, too, instead of starting to stress over the deadline or the. You know, what, what marker did I have to meet to get there?

And that’s, I think partially it comes with age. I think partially it comes with motivational interviewing, just my obsession with it. I just don’t want to create stress for myself. That’s unnecessary because. Stress is not my motive. Historically it was, and it just does. There’s too much by product that’s negative by product that I just want to avoid.

So when it comes to behavior change for myself or setting intention for the year, for a new year, one of my intention, part of the energy around that is just don’t create stress on yourself. Don’t create pressure. I, I, one of the things that. I really appreciate about it. Kind of a track that John had went down was, his shift towards lifestyle medicine.

It’s not about. losing weight. It’s not about fitting into the dress. It’s literally about if you change your lifestyle slowly, you’re going to see monumental changes a year from now, two years from now. It’s if you’re trying to drop those 20 pounds that you’re going to end up in yo yo dieting or doing damage and causing stress to yourself and feeling guilty.

But it really is lifestyle change. And that’s when I shift towards being, you know, vegetarian, it was just, I just know that that stuff is not good for me. I just look at the data. And so I just stopped doing it. And it wasn’t like, there’s no guilt. There’s no shame last night. Literally, literally last night, I, we went over to a friend’s house for dinner and she had made lasagna and there was meat in it and I don’t freak out over it, you know, and I don’t.

Make a big deal about it. I just, and I don’t pick around it in an obvious way. I just eat the parts that I want to eat. And I know that there’s me touching it and it doesn’t bother me. It’s not a political thing for me personally. It’s just, it’s not going to cause me stress or consternation. I’m not going to pack my own meals when I go over to somebody’s house.

Like it’s just because all those things just cause me stress, but my lifestyle is, I just don’t eat meat. And if meat is in my, is in my plate with somebody I’m with, then...]]> 0:32:20 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/12/20/behavior-change-in-a-compliance-based-system-a-conversation-with-judge-mary-logan-ii/ 127893710 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10696 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Wed, 20 Dec 2023 12:48:07 -0500 We hope you found value in part one of this podcast. Thank you for joining us for this second segment. Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.The episode focuses on the intersection of communication strategies and the justice system. Judge Mary Logan, with 35 years of experience as an attorney and a judge, shares insights into how communication, specifically motivational interviewing, can be integrated into legal practice. The discussion revolves around balancing compliance-based models with behavior-change models, improving outcomes for individuals in the legal system, and innovative approaches in judicial settings.

• Adapting Communication for Impact: The podcast delves into how judges like Logan are seeking to adapt their communication styles to maximize impact in limited timeframes.
• Empowering Individual Change: Logan discusses the concept of empowering individuals to identify and work towards their values, using tools like the Focus Mountain.
• Integrating Personalized Approaches: The potential for personalized approaches in judicial settings, including the use of symbolic items like rocks representing personal strengths, is explored.
• Response to Judicial System Critiques: The podcast acknowledges the current criticisms of the justice system and looks at how innovative communication and empathetic strategies can contribute to reform and improvement.
• Fostering Community Reintegration: Logan emphasizes the importance of judicial practices that support community reintegration and reduce recidivism.
• Potential for System-wide Change: The conversation suggests the potential for systemic change in the justice system through improved communication techniques and empathy-driven practices.

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You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. 

 We hope you found value in part one of this podcast. Thank you for joining us for this second segment.

Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin, here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world.

And when you say that Mary, the thing that I just, I mean, we’re in the middle of this, but I can tell right now, just between you and I right now, I, now it’s making my brain. I think because when you were talking about what, when you’ve watched the officers and those videos that I have there, there are just profoundly short.

I mean, these interactions that are 8 and a half minutes long and life changing, truly life changing suicide prevention, just things that change people’s lives. And when I developed the motivational interviewing competency assessment that might get a measure. Conversations when you and I, when you submitted the 1st,  recording of chambers that was, that was okay for you to submit to me to, to review,  the tool that I used at the time required a 20 minute sample size of an M.

I. based conversation. Part of the reason I developed the Micah instead was. So many doctors and nurses I worked with their conversations are five to 15 minutes long. They don’t even get it. So it’s like, how do we, how do we use this in a way that’s truly looking at fidelity and not just good communication?

Good communication is, is important. It’s great. Good communications, great communications. Yay. But where does evidence show that we’re going to impact behavior change? And that’s why when, when I was working on the mica to think about how can we measure this and get feedback? Now, my obsession with you is now I want to sit in the community court and watch these three minute conversations and just analyze those and go, okay, how do you maximize time?

How do you maximize time? How do you maximize time now that. Now, if the judge has maybe four minutes of quality time, other than the three minutes of doing the required reading,  how do you maximize that four minutes? And, and I don’t know if it’s possible, but I think this is where I get excited about innovation because people didn’t believe that this could happen with law enforcement.

When I started working law enforcement, officers did not believe it could happen. When I first showed up, they were the, they were the, they were first in line to say this won’t work. As I’m sitting there standing in front of them in trainings, and now that they see it working, I see this now on the judicial side that it’s like, wow, if we can maximize three to four minutes and the more that I’m studying on brain science, like the precision, if your brain, Mary Logan’s brain is so precise around law and application of law at this stage in time, wouldn’t it be fun to come to that level of precision of being able to understand language and have both of those skillsets to be able to master.

Like to me, that truly is the next frontier potentially in, in restorative justice is like, how do we think from that perspective and use every time I open my mouth, I can see the impact it’s having on the brain. And I’m not even the therapist, you know, I’m sitting on the bench and thinking about how can I help this person reintegrate into their community, which reduces crime.

And, and I don’t see these people again, because they’re, they’re moving on with their lives. I mean, that to me is wow. I mean, fairytale. But fairy tale in a good way. It’s like, oh my gosh, let’s read that book and see where it goes. Like, I . That’s right. I wanna go, I wanna go sit in. I, I really do. I think I, if you know, if it’s appropriate, if I can sit in on some of those,  situations, my brain is just gonna be, that’s like open court.

We’re, we’re an open, but what you just said, also as I’m thinking about in community court, ’cause I have the luxury of time in community court, and I was just, as you were saying those things, I’m like, and I waste it. I have to do it and it’s part of our, I mean, like what I’m thinking about here is I,  sit face to face with our participants in community court.

So they’ve just by fundamentals, they are referred in, they come to the downtown library, they are, um. met by the attorneys, the strength of the cases measured. Can it go to trial? Do they want to go to trial instead? Because our court’s an opt in, you don’t have to. But if they opt in, then they immediately get evaluation to see what their needs are, and then they craft up what’s known as the stipulated order of continuance, with the conditions being Get your identification, have,  maybe a SUD evaluation, follow through with treatment, and then, you know, sign up for housing and, you know, all of the details of their lives that are lacking, that they need the support for, then become the conditions they have to meet in order to have the case dismissed, along as, as well as, you know, don’t pick up new charges.

 And that’s all discussed with them with, by their attorney, and then they come to me. And I go through that. So my, my, it’s this, I’m having an epiphany right in front of you. My, my first moments with them, other than I always greet them. How are you doing today, sir? You know, they, they, they’re very, very open, free flow conversation to a point.

I have to put some stops up to begin with or at some points, but, but then when it comes down to we’re going on the record and they’re entering the deal, I spend. All of that time going through that contract with them, what, you know, so you’re going to be with us for the next three months. And then I go through the details of it and reiterate the same thing that they’ve already heard.

And then that’s it. That’s it. I don’t, I mean, I try to imbue more into it. But at that point, again, I’m at the very end of all of that process, and they have been handled now for anywhere from probably at the very least 20 to 30 minutes and probably upwards more of 30 to 40 minutes. So coming into the court and you know having their stuff set aside and then talking to the attorney and then talking to our probation officer and having that evaluation and then striking the deal and then coming to me.

So they’re like, I want to go, they’re done with the super gritty stuff that’s there. And while I, I tried to talk to them at, in that process, and there’s times where there are revelations that are made about the agreement where I’ll bring in the attorney because it’s like, this doesn’t, Seem to make sense in terms of where we’re at.

So they see me not advocating for them, but listening to them and then addressing those kinds of issues. But it, as I, it is, it is, I wish there, I want to create more different time than that with them. And so now I’m gonna work on that because it, it, it is the, it is one of those opportunities. The only pressure is they want to get out of there because they’re tired, right?

And we feed them lunch and they’re always hungry. I try to feed them alon...]]> 0:22:58 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/12/19/behavior-change-in-a-compliance-based-system-a-conversation-with-judge-mary-logan-i/ 127893709 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10695 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Tue, 19 Dec 2023 20:15:05 -0500 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.The episode focuses on the intersection of communication strategies and the justice system. Judge Mary Logan, with 35 years of experience as an attorney and a judge, shares insights into how communication, specifically motivational interviewing, can be integrated into legal practice. The discussion revolves around balancing compliance-based models with behavior change models, improving outcomes for individuals in the legal system, and innovative approaches in judicial settings.

• Guest Profile – Judge Mary Logan: With 35 years of experience in law, transitioning from a public defender to a judge, Mary Logan discusses her approach to legal practice.
• Balancing Legal Models: The conversation explores the balance between compliance-based models and behavior change models in the legal system.
• Emphasis on Motivational Interviewing: Logan highlights the importance of motivational interviewing in legal settings to improve communication and outcomes.
• Specialized Courts for Targeted Needs: The establishment of veterans and community courts is discussed, showcasing tailored approaches for different groups.
• Empathy in Judicial Proceedings: The significance of empathetic and effective communication in court proceedings is emphasized.
• Challenges of Time-Limited Interactions: The podcast touches on the difficulty of making a significant impact in the short interactions typical in court settings.
• Judge’s Role in Facilitating Change: Logan speaks about the judge’s potential to contribute to behavior change while maintaining legal responsibilities.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

This has been part one of a two-part podcast. We hope you’ll join us for the second portion. You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us! Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

Behavior Change in a Compliance-Based System: A Conversation with Judge Mary Logan I

Video link

Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.The episode focuses on the intersection of communication strategies and the justice system. Judge Mary Logan, with 35 years of experience as an attorney and a judge, shares insights into how communication, specifically motivational interviewing, can be integrated into legal practice. The discussion revolves around balancing compliance-based models with behavior change models, improving outcomes for individuals in the legal system, and innovative approaches in judicial settings.

• Guest Profile – Judge Mary Logan: With 35 years of experience in law, transitioning from a public defender to a judge, Mary Logan discusses her approach to legal practice.
• Balancing Legal Models: The conversation explores the balance between compliance-based models and behavior change models in the legal system.
• Emphasis on Motivational Interviewing: Logan highlights the importance of motivational interviewing in legal settings to improve communication and outcomes.
• Specialized Courts for Targeted Needs: The establishment of veterans and community courts is discussed, showcasing tailored approaches for different groups.
• Empathy in Judicial Proceedings: The significance of empathetic and effective communication in court proceedings is emphasized.
• Challenges of Time-Limited Interactions: The podcast touches on the difficulty of making a significant impact in the short interactions typical in court settings.
• Judge’s Role in Facilitating Change: Logan speaks about the judge’s potential to contribute to behavior change while maintaining legal responsibilities.

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This has been part one of a two-part podcast. We hope you’ll join us for the second portion. You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us! Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. 

 Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin, here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world.

Hello, this Casey Jackson.  I am excited to be here.  I’ve got a judge, Mary Logan,  who is somebody that I’ve known for years.  In spite of how young we are, we’ve known each other for quite a few years.  Actually Mary knew my mother extremely well too. And they were buddies and kind of on the same team and advocating.

And we’re talking today about. It’s kind of that balance between where do you find the kind of that that sweet spot or a corridor between compliance based models and behavior change based models with all the things we talk in my so I asked the judge if she would come on and she was like, absolutely.

I’ll come talk to you. So so Mary, would you just kind of. Introduce yourself and talk a little bit about kind of your role. And then I’ve got at least 5, 000 questions that I want to dive into and kind of let your free reign as well, too. So. All right. Thank you, Casey. I appreciate that. And I really appreciate being on here with you and having this opportunity to talk.

 I, I don’t know where you want me to start with it other than I’ve been a judge since 2009, but actually I’m celebrating as of this very day, my 35th year as an attorney,  which that actually just struck me about two seconds ago. And,  I think I, in my whole concept of where I wanted to go in my legal profession, it was always to change people’s lives.

Of course, when you’re younger, which I am no longer,  it is, you want to change the world, right? What came very clear to me as I matured in my role was that. If I could help one person and then the next person, that I, there’s a possibility that I might be able to actually have that super small ripple effect throughout the world.

So,  you have to humble yourself sometimes in the, in those capacities, but.  In 2009, I ultimately was appointed as a judge,  after having spent,  years in the public defender’s office,  defending folks in the criminal legal system and seeing the really negative or non, non change outcomes with.

It’s simply the retribution model in the criminal legal world. I had, I have a civil background. I did medical malpractice. It was my first,  avenue of practice.  So definitely, you know, narrowing down on one individual family because we dealt with families whose children had been,  severely damaged in the birthing process.

And so, you know, you can only make, it’s just that one instance right there, what is, which is cataclysmic. But being able to make some, some change, even if it’s just applying money, as it were, because up in the civil realm, that’s what you do, but bringing those wrongs to redress and then having the family have at least some support so they could move forward.

So that’s a bit, a bit, a little bit of the flavor of my, my practice and, and my approach in the law.  But in 2009, when the city stood up its own municipal court,  instead of contracting for digital services, which is something that can happen.  We were able to do something different with this court.

And I took that mantle very seriously, having come from practice in the district court since 1997 until 2008. And, and just seeing that, you know, punishing people wasn’t really changing behavior. It was getting the pound of flesh for the moment. But ultimately I would watch as those individuals will just continue to come back into court over and over representing first the father and then representing the grandfather and the father and the children.

And it was just this awful cycle and really wanting to do something to change that. So Mary, the thing that I wanted to just find out is what was going through your head or what, when you a decided to join, because It wasn’t mandatory for you to join the motivation training,  with the, the folks that I was training at that point in time, what, what drew you to that training and then what kept your interest kind of locked into it or, or, you know, captured your, your thoughts around it.

Yeah, I was very excited when I learned about it because I had at that point in time.  We had already started two,  therapeutic,  problem solving courts. One was, actually stood up my veterans court, which is,  veterans enhanced treatment court before I stood up the community court.  And, but for each of them, it, it was with the idea being, you know, how, how best can I communicate w...]]> 0:35:05 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/12/14/be-the-change-integrating-integrity-and-effectiveness-in-helping-professions/ 127826578 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10674 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Thu, 14 Dec 2023 15:16:35 -0500 We hope you found value in part one of this podcast. Thank you for joining us for this second segment. Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.In this episode, we delve into the importance of integrating integrity, effectiveness, and self-care in the helping professions. They discuss a new training initiative called “Be the Change,” which focuses on empowering individuals in various helping roles. The conversation revolves around the challenges of maintaining personal well-being while being dedicated to helping others, especially.

• Essence of Helping Others: Casey Jackson shares his life-long dedication to helping others and his journey from being a hands-on therapist to becoming an educator and trainer in effective communication and motivational interviewing.
• Importance of Evidence-based Practices: The discussion emphasizes the significance of using data-driven methods to bring about effective change in individuals and organizations.
• The balance between Being and Doing: Danielle Cantin brings up the concept of ‘beingness’ – living and embodying the values one preaches, which is a key element in Casey’s approach to training and personal growth.
• The Concept of “Be the Change”: This new training program aims to equip helpers with tools to make a meaningful impact while also taking care of themselves to prevent burnout.
• Integrity in Practice: The conversation highlights the importance of practicing what one teaches, ensuring that one’s actions are in alignment with their values and teachings.
• The Challenge of Sustaining Energy and Passion: The hosts discuss the common issue of burnout in helping professions and the need for continuous support and learning to maintain enthusiasm and effectiveness.
• Community and Shared Learning: There’s an emphasis on the value of learning and growing within a community, sharing experiences, and learning from one another.
• Invitation for Engagement: The podcast ends with an invitation for listeners to participate in the conversation, either by reaching out with questions or by expressing interest in joining the podcast to discuss related topics.
• Reflecting on Personal Journeys: Both hosts share their personal experiences and insights into the field of motivational interviewing and effective communication, offering a glimpse into their personal motivations and journeys.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. 

Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin, here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world.

Hello, everyone. I’m Danielle Cantin, your facilitator of the communication solution. And I’m here with your host, Casey Jackson. Hey, Casey. Hello. How are you? Doing good. Awesome. I’m, I’m really excited to talk about our topic today. Which is something that you and I have been working on for over a year,  getting to know all of your different clients, all of the people who are so drawn to training with you, to learning from you and with you.

 We really saw this need. I know in my, from my perspective, what I saw. Was this incredible opportunity of what you help train other people do these people are out there changing the world in these organizations, in these businesses, they are so dedicated to doing good, to helping others that it became very clear to me, Ooh, if you’re not on it.

You could get depleted, you could get, you know, burnout. Of course, that was all,  you know, a while after the heels of COVID, but still we’re so mindful of that. And so we’ve talked about, about the need to support all of the people trying to help other people with the communication solution. With motivational interviewing, I’d love to toss this over to you to tease out a little bit.

What is it that you’re so passionate about helping these folks? Because we’ve got a training lined up. It’s brand new with you. And you, you were, you knew right away, it’s called be the change. You knew the title. And I’d love to just dig in a little bit more about your motivation for it, who you want to help and why.

 Cause I have my ideas and passions about it as well. But I think obviously the most important thing is. Is your perspective. Well, and I, and I want to, because you’ve had so much energy around this, I do want to bounce back to you to find out where, why this has become kind of your pet project,  in your work with me.

For me, I wasn’t even necessarily thinking about the, be the change. This was, this was so much about your brainchild. It’s just the more you talked about it. I think, well, there’s two things. I’ll start with what you asked. You know, why am I so passionate about it is I don’t understand. I don’t understand why we’re here on the planet if we’re not here to help each other.

So that’s just, that’s a source of why I do what I do. It’s why when I found my career, I knew it was my calling, you know, as a therapist, as a, as a trainer, it just, there’s something effortless. For me about being present for other people that to help them heal and get clear and, and feel like they’re progressing on their journey for me, my journey is to help other people on their journey.

It’s just the way I just know that’s the way I was born. That’s just what my calling was. So to be able to look at, you know, have had these, the privilege to get an education and the privilege to,  Work for a university where change was studied and mental health and mental illness was studied and evidence based practices were formed and I can see data behind what helped people change.

That was different than when I started in the field, which was, I was just a good person that really wanted to help other people. And I loved working with youth and I wanted to help them with addiction issues and mental health issues and depression. To start their lives on a better path. I mean, that was just what I was drawn to do.

I knew that was my calling. I had no doubt about it ever. And never did I waver from that knowing this. I know that my desire to do that. Helped people and change people because I still get feedback from, from people that I worked with back then, but the more I learned about research and the evidence about, okay, what is the most effective, what is the most, I love words like potency and dose, like, what’s the right dose, the right potency to get the best outcome.

Because those words make sense to me when I think about my own health or my own, you know, health struggles or issues that come up, you know, it’s like, I just want to know, what can I do to get to the best possible place? And that’s what I think of with, you know, all of my peers in the helping world, you know, my colleagues in the world that, that help.

Other human beings, I just want to know that the energy that I expended was the best way I could have spent it and expended it to get the best possible outcomes of the people that I work with it. It’s just a light year evolution from well, I know I did my best today. Well, I know I did my best today. I don’t know if I helped anybody, but I know I tried my hardest.

I know I did my damnedest. I know that I wanted to make a difference and I know that I gave my life. Blood. And I know that I, I was there with them and I bled with them and I sweat with them and I cried with them. That’s the way we’re coming at kind of my, my benchmarks or my mile markers before. And I think that there was healing that happened in me being present in that way.

I think a lot of that energy was not expended the way that was in the best interest of everyone. I think that there’s ways that I could have been better and more effective. So I don’t grieve that. I just allow that that was part of my own evolution. But it’s my obsession with how do we consolidate this?

How do we bring what we know and who we are and maximize that for the greatest impact for human good? That’s my intention. That’s my goal. That’s what I want to accomplish. That’s what I want to facilitate and foster in my communities, in the world, whatever way I can do that, that, so that answers, that’s kind of my big answer to the question of why, why do you do what you do or why are you doing this?

And, and then I want to, and I think you and I connecting was something when I was presenting that you picked up and you could feel that or tell that. Not only in what I was communicating, but how it’s communicating it because the content that I was communicating in that keynote, I think you resonated with.

But it was also me as I speaking it that you resonated with. Then once you got to know me a bit better. It really be. The change was not my brainchild. Be the change is much more your brainchild. So, because you’re the one who has all this energy, you keep pouring into it. Like you’re keeping it at the forefront.

You’re, you know, you’re thinking of it. I’m going to throw it back to y...]]> 0:33:52 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/12/14/new-years-resolution-embracing-new-beginnings-and-sustaining-change/ 127826577 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10673 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:36:21 -0500 We hope you found value in part one of this podcast. Thank you for joining us for this second segment. Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.In this episode we delve into the concept of New Year’s resolutions, particularly through the lens of motivational interviewing and sustainable behavior change. The discussion explores how individuals and businesses can approach the New Year with a mindset focused on positive change, aligning actions with core values, and the importance of verbalizing goals to trusted, unbiased listeners for clarity and accountability. The podcast also touches on the challenges of maintaining long-term changes and strategies to sustain motivation beyond initial enthusiasm.

• Forward-Looking Approach: Casey Jackson emphasizes the importance of a forward-looking approach in motivational interviewing, contrasting it with traditional psychotherapy that often delves into the past.
• Cultural Reflections: The hosts discuss how different cultures view relaxation and being present, highlighting the often hectic pace of life in the U.S.
• The Journey of Change: The concept of life being a journey, not just a destination, is explored, suggesting that sustainable change involves enjoying the process, not just focusing on the end goal.
• The Impact of COVID-19: The pandemic is mentioned as a catalyst for people to reassess their lives, priorities, and what truly matters to them, similar to the reflection that occurs around the New Year.
• Sustainability of Change: The hosts discuss the importance of making sustainable changes that align with one’s values, rather than temporary or superficial adjustments.
• Role of External Feedback: John Gilbert emphasizes the value of having external measures or feedback to complement internal reflection and ensure alignment with values and goals.
• The Concept of a ‘New Day’: Casey Jackson introduces the idea of each day being a new opportunity to progress towards goals, rather than seeing setbacks as complete restarts.
• Balancing Internal and External Measures: The discussion acknowledges the importance of balancing internal feelings and motivations with external, objective measures for sustainable behavior change.
• Invitation for Listener Engagement: The podcast concludes with an invitation for listeners to share their thoughts, agreements, disagreements, and topic ideas, emphasizing the interactive nature of the podcast.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin, here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world.

Hello everyone and welcome to Creation Solution. I’m Danielle Cantin, your facilitator for today and I am here with your hosts Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. Hey guys. Hey Danielle. Hey Danielle. Hey, I’m excited for this episode today.  I thought we could dig into a topic that I’m, I want to say might be really emphasized in the U. S. But I’m sure it’s felt somewhat across the globe.  The new year and with the new year comes It’s lots of ideas around resolutions and such. And that makes me think of motivational interviewing and how that might affect, you know, not only the fresh start that we look at as an individual with, Hmm, what might we like to go into this new year with, but also as a business, you know, people are looking at that as well.

And when I think of resolutions and, you know, you have to laugh at the age-old. Sayings and beliefs of like, Oh yeah, you go at it hard on January 1st and you know, you peter out with that long-term behavior change. So I thought that could be a really fun topic to think about motivational interviewing, the communication solution, and maybe how to reframe or think about the new year and in a way that could help people take steps forward in a really positive way.

You know, I think it’s fascinating when you were just talking about it and kind of introducing this, Danielle, I don’t know why, but my brain just went to the difference between motivational interviewing and kind of, I was raised a little bit more in the psychotherapy realm.  You know, I was going through my schooling, be a therapist and, and I think that really for me is a bit the difference.

What I love about motivational interviewing is who do you want to be from today forward.  Psychotherapy is talking about what’s happened to you in the past. And, and so I, there’s something that just, I think the thought of new years, I think in so many different celebrations around the world, always have this kind of celebration of new life or rebirth or starting from here or moving forward.

And, and that part just really, that intrigues me. It literally almost lightens my chest even talking about that. Like, just think if, If your thought process was, where do you want to put your foot today? Where do you want to take a step towards today? And I think that is the nature of New Year’s resolution of, you know, the year is gone.

You take a deep breath, you know, give your loved ones a hug, shake off the last year, and then think about literally baby New Year is you’ve got a fresh start. You, you, who do you want to be? How do you want to navigate this? I think what happens where we falter is we straddle our old thinking and our old behaviors and try to straddle that with new thinking and kind of this excitement on New Year’s Eve and New Year’s resolutions.

And then we move back into our old life. And if you’re going to do that, you’re just not going to make progress. And I think this from that, I mean, just brainstorming out loud. And I think that’s one of the things that I wrestled with as a therapist is, you know, every week you talk about what’s happened the week before and, and how that relates to trauma from the past.

And, and I don’t think that’s bad or wrong, but I think that consumes energy for what do you want to do today about tomorrow?  So all the, the moments I’m talking about the past and. And the past week are moments that I’m not paying attention to the present. And what can I be doing to create the life that I want today?

And from this point forward, I think I’m in such a transformation myself right now, living this and believing this,  you know, implementing all the things I know about health and growth and mindset. And teaching it, it’s very present in my mind in a, in a dimensional and visceral way for me right now. So it is interesting that, you know, you brought up the topic of New Year’s because I’m really in this kind of trying to be forward growth mindset,  and feeling the potency of it and how, how many people want to pull you back into old ways of being.

And I think that’s the same for New Year. Yeah. And I think also that is such a brilliant insight because it’s not just other people want to pull you in, but it’s what we know. So it’s just like, Oh my God, I want to leap into this future that doesn’t exist yet. And I want to do it from a place that I’m familiar with, which is contradictory.

I’m also secretly laughing because I’m drinking out of a coffee cup that says counselor, the counselor, which is, you know, just cracks me up because it’s very true about, it’s all about looking back and our facial interview viewing is looking about looking forward. That’s exactly it. And, and I think from.

You know, as I think about this, we’ve all talked about this before with businesses and sustainability and, you know, and I know we need to talk about this on a separate podcast as well, but I think that when you’re thinking about if you’re going to sustain or have forward movement, it just requires change.

And so many people find, we know we find comfort in status quo. You, you, you, there’s, it’s, it’s, it’s the old pair of sweats. It’s the old blanket we like to cuddle with. It’s our old coffee mug that we like to find and pour. It’s just, we like that stability and chronic change is just hard on our brains.

It’s hard on our biology, chronic change. I mean, it’s good for growth, but there also needs to be a time for reset and. you know, regroup as well, too. And I think our world is so chaotic that we’re chronically in a state of change. It doesn’t feel like we get a lot of status quo, except this is where I think why I like that we attempt to think more globally.

There is the U. S. phenomenon that we just Can’t sit down, you have to be multitasking. So I think there is this, how much do we have to do it and how much have we bought into, you know, kind of a, a cultural phenomenon that if you’re sitting down, you’re wasting time and you’re not productive anymore and you don’t have value.

When you compare that to more traditional cultures, where that’s an art, the art of relaxing, the art of just leaning into being the art of being present.  Those are the things that I think, I think our brains get wrapped around this. Go, go, go, go, go.  And I thi...]]> 0:34:41 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/12/07/harnessing-the-power-of-communication/ 127704846 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10645 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Thu, 07 Dec 2023 05:51:59 -0500 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.In this episode, we discuss the importance of effective communication in organizations and how it can lead to improved retention, recruitment, and overall workplace culture. We also introduce the concept of “Be the Change,” a training program designed to help individuals develop a mindset and skillset for better communication.

• The power of effective communication in organizations.
• The importance of making employees feel valued and understood.
• The relationship between recruitment, retention, and workplace culture.
• The “Great Resignation” phenomenon and its impact on organizations.
• Creating an infrastructure and communication web that meets employees’ needs.
• The role of authenticity and genuineness in communication.
• Aligning personal values with organizational values.
• The concept of “Be the Change” and its focus on mindset and heart-set.
• The intentions in the MICA (Motivational Interviewing Competency Assessment) and their impact on communication.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution. That will change your world. 

Hello changemakers. It’s Danielle Cantin here, the facilitator of the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson. How are you, Casey? Awesome. I cannot stop thinking about a podcast that we did around why you named this podcast, the communication solution instead of motivational interviewing or something around that topic.

We really dove into how the communication solution, Can can help bolster all different kinds of organizations and to me coming from the business world and working with so many founders and leader leadership teams. There’s something that I feel very passionate about, which is. How do these companies actually help take care of their workforce?

So a lot of times businesses are so focused, so focused on the end client, the end customer. And what I’ve seen through all of your trainings of different organizations is the power. That even if that’s not your intention going into it, the end result is this beautiful workforce, this team culture that in theory, visionaries think intellectually, I should say, yeah, take care of your team and they’ll take care of everything else for you.

What are you actually doing it? Are you actually giving your team? The environment, the tools, the trust to do and be that for you. So you can tell I get really fired up talking about this because it’s, I’ve never seen anything like what you train the results that, that flow out from these organizations.

Can we dive in a little bit about. About retention, about recruiting, about building that team that then uses the tools to, to kind of pass the love on right. To your ultimate end consumer. Yeah. I think, you know, for me, it’s easy to talk about it when I start from an individual perspective and then talk about how my brain.

Expanded into more of a macro level or organizational perspective or, or, you know, the social perspective on it. I think what it makes sense, if you’re thinking about a company or a corporation, profit or nonprofit, you have to be financially viable. You just, that is literally basic arithmetic. 1 plus 1 equals 2.

Like, if we’re not, we’re not making money, we can’t be around anymore. You know, on some level, and then it’s a matter of how much money do we want to make? I think it gets into as well, too. So how do we incentivize? How do we motivate? How do we engage our workforce? You know, all the things that we can do for being a social worker.

I’m startled by my own professional development of how much appreciation. I’ve developed around data and research, in terms of just looking at the science of how things work. And if you just research, and most people know this is, it’s not always about salary. You know, people have said they’ve done research over and over and over again, that people to feel like they’re fulfilled in their job and that they actually love going to work.

People will take a pay cut to have something that improves their basic quality of life because of how much time we spend in our chosen profession on any given day, it’s a ton of time, on any given day, on any given week. And so if it’s something that feeds you and nurtures you and you feel better about the work that you’re doing, it doesn’t matter what the industry is.

You know, this is this, you know, we touched on it last time. It was the kind of phenomenon with the kind of where people talk about the Google work experience or the ebay work experience that people just felt like, oh, my gosh, this just it feeds me like this. This is this aligns with my lifestyle and not every company can do that.

But what it comes down to is it’s not creating that structure per se. It’s how do you engage the workforce from an internal perspective instead of an external HR? Management perspective, you know, yes, the benefit packages are amazing and those are going to get good for recruitment, but that isn’t necessarily going to create retention.

And I think this was the, the great resignation was just a phenomenon, you know, post covid covid post covid that just really rocked the, you know. The corporate world, and the nonprofit world is, you know, what do we, we hear about it consistently in the health care arena. Like you can’t pay me enough to stay in this workforce because none of this aligns with my values.

This is just actually going against my value set. So how do you. Create an infrastructure. How do you create a communication web where people feel that from an internal perspective that their needs are getting met and not only are their needs getting met, it feels like it’s a growth mindset environment.

So we can read books on this. We can watch podcasts on this, but how do you actualize it? That’s my obsession. And that’s why, that’s why I teach what I teach because it’s like, how do we actualize, how do we take these philosophical and yeah, it sounds good. And yeah, I’m inspired when I listened to this.

But how do we operationalize it and measure it and improve it because that in and of itself sounds fairly sterile. But this is again where I’m obsessed with M. I. with motivational and the communication solutions that I’ve come up with because we were able to do is we can catalyze this, we can measure it, we can provide feedback and people can actually.

Feel the improvement in the quality of their own life while the bottom line is improving at the same time. And that’s just, to me, it’s the Holy grail. It’s, you know, unlocking that, that ultimate combination. Yeah, it’s in what I love about it too, because it’s, am I right? Motivational interviewing, like, oh, it’s a, if you focus on the skill piece of it.

It can feel like, oh, I’m not being myself and I’m just implementing a tool and I’ve never seen you do that. Every, every time you do it, it’s a conversation. And when you’re in that room training, these organizations, there isn’t a single topic that comes up. Where you aren’t able to, communicate in a way that is 100 percent authentically you and opens the door to something greater for that other person.

That’s it. There’s an authenticity that moves beyond technique. And, you know, it’s not surprising in one of the podcasts we talked about this with, you know, the latest research from Dr Miller and Moyers. You know, what improves outcomes and that authenticity and genuineness. So it’s not, yeah, there’s ways to teach that, but it’s also, there’s the embodiment of it that you, you can’t technique your way to authenticity.

There’s no technique in that. That has to be a mindset shift. You know, and being able to give people feedback about how is that being perceived and received, on both sides. So, yeah, it is, you can’t technique into most of these things, but that’s what people continue to get trained on is technique.

And so bridging these concepts in a way to pull it together to that improves actual hard outcomes, like retention and, and, and productivity. Yeah. I think about, benefits too. Right. Cause cause you’re looking for employment and it’s just like, well, what’s the benefit package or look ongoing.

Everybody puts in their budget, ongoing professional development. And it’s usually a very small little line item. And it’s like, what if you actually brought in the kind of training that revolutionizes somebody’s world and makes them as a person just feel like. Wow. I got something out of this that isn’t even tied to this organization.

It’s something that can improve all of my relationships and loves in my life. What I see visually is this like great resignation you brought up. You’ve got, an employee sitting here going, Oh my God. Like what is happening in the world? I don’t even know what my...]]> 0:28:57 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/12/06/motivational-interviewing-in-community-corrections/ 127699634 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10644 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Wed, 06 Dec 2023 18:41:54 -0500 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.In this engaging episode, we have a special guest, Jessica Keaney, a licensed social worker with a wealth of experience in community corrections. Together, we delve into the world of motivational interviewing (MI) and discuss its profound impact on the criminal justice system. We explore the power of empathetic conversations, reflective listening, and the transformative potential of helping individuals align their behavior with their values. Join us as we gain insights from Jessica’s expertise and learn how MI can create positive outcomes and reduce recidivism in our communities.

• The serendipitous encounter with Jessica at the Mint Conference and the value of authentic connections.
• A closer look at the Mint Conference, an annual gathering for MI practitioners.
• The significance of empathetic conversations and personal connections at professional events.
• Delving into the core principles of motivational interviewing (MI) and its departure from traditional approaches in the criminal justice system.
• The pivotal role of reflective listening in MI, with a focus on overcoming resistance.
• Validating clients’ feelings and experiences as a key component of the MI process.
• Empowering individuals to harmonize their actions with their deeply held values.
• Emphasizing the importance of empathy and compassion in guiding individuals through the justice system.
• Jessica’s valuable insights into utilizing MI to foster positive outcomes and reduce recidivism in our communities.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

 Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin, here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world.

Hi everyone. I’m Danielle Cantin here facilitating the communication solution podcast with our favorite Casey Jackson.

Hey Casey. And we are so excited because we have a special guest today. We have Jessica Keaney. She is a licensed social worker from Massachusetts and she works in community corrections. She’s got an incredible background. I’m going to let her share more about who she is.  But what’s really fun is how they came to meet at the mint conference in Copenhagen this year.

 So as you know, if you’ve listened to our other podcasts, the mint conference. Happens every year, the international motivational interviewing network of trainers conference. So it’s kind of fun. I think I’ll let you guys explain the story of how you met and turn it over to you, Casey. Well, I am excited because I love having people on to chat with, you don’t love having John on here, but just the story is fascinating to me.

   So I’m sitting, having lunch,  at the for  with some buddies of mine. And the forum’s an amazing place to just see people from all over the world that you have kind of this heart connection with and, and mind connection, because we share the connection over motivational interviewing and, and what that means.

And I’m eating lunch and,  and then just makes a comment about the food.  Because I’m vegetarian, she’s vegetarian. And I’m like, yeah, the food has been awesome here. Like just surprisingly good. And then everyone just kind of keeps talking. She’s talking to the person she’s sitting next to. And then there’s a comment about social worker.

And then she’s like, I’m a social worker too. And then we kind of high five because we’re both social workers. And then Jess, I’ll turn it over to you because this is where I was like, then I’m kind of talking and eating and,  just. Benign sitting there. Yeah. So I just, I’m like, where do I know that voice from?

Where do I know that voice from? And I’m like.

I was like, I think I said, are you Casey Jackson? Like, if you were like an A list Oscar winner, cause to me, you know, that’s sort of, you know, how I think of you.  And so we just were chatting and I think you felt bad for me. Cause you were like, Oh, this girl is my big fan. And you were like, come on my podcast.

You know, what I was shocked is I said, Oh, you’re the one person that listens to the podcast. So you’re like, no, I love this podcast. I’m just like, that is just crazy. Cause I just forget that people actually listen, you know, I love talking. Am I, we like getting into these kinds of topics, but you just don’t know who listens and every time we tend to wrap up with, Hey, if you want to be on the podcast, if you have questions, so then you, as you and I were chatting, it’s like, Jess, come on the podcast.

So it was perfect. And now here you are. Yes. So, and one of the things that was fun about that was, and where it started, the idea of even just like, where it’s like, come on, the podcast is we just started talking about, we’re talking, I don’t even know how it came up about the reflective listening. Do you remember your, I think in a training with the way that you train with the population you work with.

Oh, yes. I don’t even, you’re right. I don’t even know how it happened, but all of a sudden we were minutes into a conversation about reflections.  And I think I sort of said like these forums have been great because I think it gave a different way to think about training,  reflections. And so,  cause I find a lot of times,  some of the folks in the trainings.

 You know, struggle with reflections and what they think reflections might mean and all those sorts of things, which, which is so common. And that’s where I think you and I started chatting about it. There was so much fun. I thought this is such a perfect podcast. I mean, we talked about reflective listening in the podcast, you know, we get into all sorts of MI skills and techniques, but I know that it’s so much more complex in the world of law enforcement and corrections.

It’s just, it can feel like. You know, well, we don’t do hug a thug, or this is a little too counselor technique for me, or I’ve just got to be real, you know, I’m not going to pussyfoot around. And,  all these things that people tend to think of, especially in those professions, but that is so different than expressing accurate empathy, which I think.

You know, so many people have the capacity to do, but they get it consolidated into a reflective statement and it feels like it’s not going to have the potency and that’s where you and I started going into, yeah, that’s so fascinating to train it differently because it’s kind of beyond the or skills when we’re looking at empathy.

And that was just, that conversation was just a blast for me. Yeah, definitely. Definitely wasn’t. It just, I don’t know. It was like something clicked to me in that moment. I was like. Maybe I just ask the folks I’m training have, which again is a closed ended question, but closed ended questions aren’t bad, but you know, have you ever said to somebody you look tired and just, and then their conversation with like, what made you ask somebody if they look tired and get to say like, that’s actually a reflection as like a way to maybe help them.

You know, understand that or grasp the concept of reflections a little bit easier. I don’t know. I love that because I think where people struggle is in regurgitating language and that’s, I think when they think of kind of traditional gerian reflective listening, it’s that kind of regurgitation or paraphrasing or parenting it back.

And when you said that what was so I thought was such a smart way to frame it, is it’s what I teach or push people into trusting their instinct a little bit more. Like when you can see somebody is clearly tired and you say, you know, you look tired. That’s, that’s a reflective. That’s like, you’re getting a good sense of how this person is thinking or feeling, or just from some observations, but they didn’t just say that you have some instinctual sense.

And that is the nature of what high accurate empathy is versus just repeating the last three words that they said, which is what so many people can reduce reflective listening down to. You know, if you guys don’t mind me jumping in, coming in as like an outsider from motivational interviewing, I think it’s really interesting because of my background, I was taught the reflective listening that you just described, which is more regurgitation.

And you just painted a great picture for me in law enforcement, where it’s just like, no, I gotta be real. I gotta be this. I can’t do that stuff. I mean, they’re going to call me on it. What I don’t want to put you on the spot, but could you give an example of. What you think somebody would say or how they would say it or think they should say it to be real and then a way that they could actually say it that that would be filled with empathy and in not in, in,  what do you call it,  address their fears?

Like, look, it doesn’t have to be that way. And you just did it with your tone when you said. You look tired. It’s like...]]> 0:33:40 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/11/28/unlocking-transformation-through-effective-communication/ 125519864 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10601 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Tue, 28 Nov 2023 14:41:15 -0500 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.In this episode, we explore why we chose Communication Solution’s name, delving into Casey’s expertise in motivational interviewing and its profound impact on individuals and organizations. The conversation underscores the importance of effective communication in transforming outcomes and culture within organizations.

• Casey explains the choice of the podcast name, “The Communication Solution,” and its connection to motivational interviewing.
• The significance of motivational interviewing as a powerful skill set for personal and professional growth.
• Casey’s perspective on communication’s impact on individuals, systems, and society as a whole.
• The idea that effective communication is a solution for improving outcomes in various aspects of life.
• The role of communication in different areas, from relationships to organizational culture.
• The importance of aligning behavior with values and the role of communication in achieving this alignment.
• The challenge of implementing motivational interviewing in organizations and the need for fidelity to make a real impact.
• The connection between effective communication and improved organizational outcomes, such as reduced turnover and higher satisfaction.
• The shift from a control-based mindset to a more open and supportive communication approach.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

 Hello and welcome to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication.

We love to talk about solutions. And we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world.

Hello, beautiful people. It’s Danielle Cantin here, your facilitator of the communication solution, and I’m here with Casey Jackson.

Hey, Casey. Hey, I’m excited today to talk about why you named this podcast. The communication solution. We know that you’re kind of a master with motivational interviewing. You train, so many organizations and help so many people with this incredible tool evidence based practice. Why did you call this podcast motivational interviewing?

Why, why communication solution? You know, I think partially it’s from my background as a social worker and a social work perspective is that you’re trying to help as many individuals, but looking at systems, you’re looking at a micro level, you’re looking at a macro level and motivationally is not the end all be all.

It’s the most phenomenal, truly the most phenomenal skill set I’ve ever accessed and, and, developed for myself. It’s had the most profound. Impact on me personally and professionally, but the more I grew my skillset and expanded my understanding, I just think there’s a profound awareness of how communication impacts our lives or the lack of communication or, or communication.

And. For me, it’s not that every conversation is, am I, nor should it be motivational interviewing, but by definition, if there’s a conversation, there’s communication, you know, no matter what that communication is. Can we find a way to be more effective? Can we find a way to be more efficient and, and heal ourselves, heal families, heal communities, you know, heal societies.

That’s, that to me is a solution. And the one thing we have control over is what we say when we open our mouth. So for me, it was just kind of that, You know, meditation that came to me is just like, this is truly a communication solution. So that’s, that’s kind of my walking into that and just thinking that would be, for me, that’d be a fascinating podcast to listen to.

Something that really does give me kind of a mindset and a skill set to improve outcomes of things around me. I love that one. And you know, when I met you on stage, you were, you know, speaker at the senior living conference and. I was just blown away. I was blown away because I, I did not know motivational interviewing and in branding and marketing, which is my career, my background, my expertise is like in branding and marketing, you touch every single day.

If you’re not touching every single department, you’re doing something wrong because you’re a reflection. That’s what you’re bringing to life is the culture and, and how are you making sure it’s aligned? And that’s why I was like, Oh my God, this is a tool that you can use. To actually make sure everybody is aligned if it starts from the top.

So it was really, I’m really drawn to that. It’s called the communication solution. And I also understand the difference that motivational interviewing, is, is the tool that you pull out when you want to address behavior change. Is that fair to say it is, and you know, the communication solution is a much better term than the nightmare that you look at with the, the name of my company, which is the Institute for Individual and Organizational.

All right, that’s example. And that’s exactly what I was thinking. The same thing with communication solution is I was looking at the more I was evolving my understanding and application motivational interviewing. This applies on an individual level, but it applies on an organizational level or on systems levels.

And again, this goes back to my social work mindset of how do I have a micro level impact and a macro level impact. And like, you and I’ve talked about so many times, whether I’m talking to an individual or you’re within an organization. So the issues come down to poor communication or the absence or the lack of communication.

So I don’t care if you’re talking about a marriage or a relationship or parenting or with your friend group or in your office or within the organization. I mean, probably the number one thing you hear more than anything when people are disgruntled is it feels like I don’t know what’s going on. Nobody communicates with me, you know, there’s miscommunication.

Well, that’s not what they told me. It’s just. Communication, communication, communication, communication, which makes sense when you talk about from a branding and marketing, like, well, branding and marketing should be, you know, have the fingers, you know, at least in connection with every single department or program.

And what does that mean? That means communication, whether it’s written or, or, yeah, it’s, hands down every single organization I’ve worked with. Communication is the number one pain point, and they just don’t have a solution. That’s why when I met you, I was like, we’ve got to make sure everybody in the world knows about this.

Every single CEO and leader needs to know there really is, there really is a system that you can use a way of being and actual tools and, and.

So Casey, can you tell us, a little bit about the actual companies that you’ve helped, in the, I would say the for profit world with their communication solutions or their culture? Yeah. The thing that’s so, why I get so You know, passionate about this is, you know, I’ve worked with all sorts of companies in, in senior living, you know, at least there’s a, there’s a business or an industry for everything.

And somebody has got to do those things, and, you know, behavioral health, mental health, substitute. There’s just so many organizations that I’ve had the privilege to work with. I think where it’s difficult when you were talking about CEOs. You know, thinking from a CEO or CEO or CFO perspective, I think there’s so much marketing out there for use our brand of communication and then people use it and it’s like, yeah, that was helpful, but it really fades over time or it just doesn’t stick.

It doesn’t make a cultural shift and, you know, part of my. Investment in motivational interviewing is it does make system change. It makes cultural shift if people will follow it to fidelity. So it’s not because Casey Jackson says it’s so it’s not because I found a brand or I did a TED talk. It’s literally because the data bears it out.

It is an evidence based practice for a reason. Because the research continues to bear out and continues to evolve the way we use language and apply it. So what does everyone do in leadership positions or program managers? Okay, let’s get somebody to train MI. So somebody comes in and trains MI, and they’re like, well, that didn’t change our outcomes.

But people really like the training. And that tends to be the way that things unfold, typically. Because most people don’t want to invest in the full fidelity model. So. You know, I like being very transparent when I talk to any organization. And I think this is where I think there’s more of a, of a hesitancy in the corporate world because they’re always being sold something.

And in motivation, I mean, you’re not selling anything. You’re really trying to help them have the culture that they want. So they’re always filtering who’s selling me the new software, who’s selling me new it, who’s selling me. Yeah. I know yours is the best, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But ...]]> 0:34:16 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/11/28/harnessing-hope-the-power-of-positive-change-in-communication/ 125513733 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10596 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Tue, 28 Nov 2023 14:30:37 -0500 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.In this episode, we dive deep into the concept of hope and its connection to motivational interviewing. We explore how hope plays a vital role in motivating individuals and organizations to create positive change. The discussion touches on ethical considerations and the potential misuse of motivational interviewing. Throughout the conversation, the hosts emphasize the transformative power of hope and its ability to catalyze change in both personal and professional contexts.

• The episode introduces the role of hope in motivational interviewing and its connection to positive outcomes in various fields.
• Casey discusses the characteristics of helping professionals that contribute to positive outcomes, highlighting the alignment with motivational interviewing principles.
• The concept of the placebo effect is explored in relation to hope, revealing its significant impact on health outcomes.
• Casey shares historical anecdotes related to the power of hope, including the story of Mesmer and hypnosis.
• The discussion delves into the dimensions of hope, emphasizing the role of optimism and self-efficacy.
• The hosts examine the relationship between hope, optimism, and motivational interviewing, emphasizing the importance of believing in an individual’s potential for change.
• Casey stresses the need for fidelity in implementing motivational interviewing to achieve consistent and measurable results.
• Ethical considerations regarding the application of motivational interviewing are discussed, with a focus on avoiding manipulation.
• The hosts emphasize the need for organizations to align their behavior with their values to create cultural change.
• The episode concludes with an invitation for listeners to engage in discussions and share their thoughts on motivational interviewing and related topics.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve.

Welcome to the communication solution. That will change your world. Hi everyone. I’m Danielle Cantin with the Communication Solution podcast. I’m here with Casey Jackson. How are you, Casey? Doing great. Awesome. Thanks everybody for joining us. We’re really excited today to talk about a concept that is very near and dear to my heart and weave it into motivational interviewing.

 Casey, on one of our previous podcasts,  we talked about the MINT forum. It’s a conference, motivational interviewing network of trainers international happens every year you go,  And in that episode, you mentioned something that I’m very intrigued with, and I’d like to talk about hope. And you mentioned that Dr. Miller,  was talking about hope and the value of hope. I’d love if you could weave in that concept. Does it relate to motivational interviewing? Did he say that it relates to motivational interviewing and kind of help? Positioned hope within this construct,  for communicating. 

There’s, there’s a lot to unpack with that.

 So it was fascinating, just like the, the conversation that you and John and I had had about the book that Miller, Dr. William Miller and Dr. Teresa Moyer’s just published around or relatively recently published around,  the characteristics of. The professional and how they impact outcomes. So that was not based in motivational interviewing.

That was just like what produces positive outcomes. But when they, when they did the research and looked at 70 years of data, 70 years of data of what, where were the outcomes, the most positive in healthcare, mental health, substance use, what were the factors? It wasn’t the model. It was the characteristics of the helping professional.

So that wasn’t motivational interviewing, but what Miller was talking about is when you look at the top five. The top five characteristics are the things that we teach and we train and motivational interviewing. So that was, so it was like, wow, now you can see where the data crosswalks. I think there’s a similarity to, because now the next book that Miller’s going to write and he’s researching right now is around hope.

So he’s looking at all the data around that. And he’s, he just presented his,  preliminary findings and he hasn’t even started writing as much of the manuscript yet, but just still gathering data and starting to jot down notes. And it was. Fascinating. So, like you had said before, you know, we can kind of get off on the side of, of hope and, you know, the human spirit and lean into that.

And there’s so much magic and potency and power to that. There are several things that he had talked about and, and, and I think that it’s hard. You’d be hard pressed to be able to be highly skilled or proficient at motivational interviewing and not have more of an optimistic perspective. And, and optimism is just one of the qualities embedded in hope,  that there’s an optimism to hope.

If you bridge it to the science, this was so fascinating to me. And this is where he was kind of chuckling about it, that for as maddening as it is to researchers, it is such a powerful reality and that’s placebo. Researchers just get, and practitioners are just. It’s, it’s just annoying that placebo effect has so much potency because, you know, no matter what the issue is, if people think it’s going to work or think that it could have potential to help, that is the power of the mind or the power of the brain.

So even though you’re just getting the sugar pill, you don’t have as much pain as other people that didn’t take that sugar pill because they think it’s some magic medicine that the placebo effect is real and you cannot escape. The research that shows how effective placebo effect is, it’s consistent and it’s maddening because 

yeah, 

that’s what he’s talking about 

here.

If you’re in a scientist, he was laughing at the, 

yeah, it just kind of checked me this like, you know, for as much as we get annoyed and we want to kind of dismiss placebo, the data keeps drawing us back to placebo effects. So placebo effect was partially what he was talking about in terms of a comprehensive assessment of hope because placebo effect is.

Rooted in the fact that people hope they could get better, and they hope this pill or this intervention is going to make a difference. And their hope is so strong that their outcomes improve consistently with placebo effect. So you can’t ignore that.  And then he talked more about the research around.

He even shared a story that was. Pretty fun. I didn’t know this history, but I knew about Mesmer, which is where hypnosis came from. And, and I can’t remember his first name, but I think it was Joseph Mesmer, but can’t remember his actual name, but it’s where mesmerized came from,  and hypnosis came from because he could take groups of people and magnetize them and that would, and they would get healthier and they were getting better outcomes.

And,  so, and it was kind of ticking off the king because it’s like, this isn’t. This isn’t magic. Is he magic? Like what’s going on? How can you just magnetize people and put him in a room and animal magnetism and all these things he’s doing and people were feeling better and reporting better outcomes.

And so what he did is he paid a researcher, which happened to be Benjamin Franklin to research this and find out, is this true or not true? And even Benjamin Franklin was a little annoyed because he just, He disproved that Mesmer was being able to do the things that he said. So he disproved Mesmer, but what he couldn’t disprove is that the actual reported outcomes of the measurable outcomes were better.

So it was just, which it just goes back to that placebo effect that people think they can get better or want to get better or believe they can get better and believe that you’ve given them something that will help them get better. That has a dose effect. That has an effect on people and that’s, that’s rooted in health.

So, so you look at some of the research just around placebo effect and that is based off the thing that people believe or want to believe strongly enough that this could help them, that they physically or psychologically improve to some extent. That’s interesting. That’s in a concept of hope. 

That’s interesting to tie it to motivational interviewing from my perspective, which is definitely novice, right?

It’s, it’s, it’s understanding that the people that get involved with training. And teaching motivational interviewing are definitely, like you said, optimists, and they have that hope they have that belief, right? Isn’t that a premise of motivational interviewing? You have a belief that that person can make a change that that person, 

this is interesting.

So this is a great thing to bring up, Danielle, because. What we do measure and again, I, I, Iwant to really bu...]]> 0:31:49 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/11/21/communication-solution-for-the-holidays-embracing-empathy-values-and-spirit/ 122480493 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10572 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Tue, 21 Nov 2023 18:17:31 -0500 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.In this episode, we discuss the increasing stress associated with the holidays and explore how motivational interviewing can be differentiated from healthy communication in managing this stress. The conversation highlights the importance of aligning one’s behavior with personal values and employing empathy to reduce familial tensions. We also touch upon the ethical considerations of trying to change family members’ behaviors and the significance of maintaining holiday rituals and joy.

• The Impact of Stress During Holidays: Discussion on the increasing stress levels during the holiday season and its effects on relationships.
• Motivational Interviewing vs. Healthy Communication: Differentiating between motivational interviewing techniques and general healthy communication practices.
• The Role of Brain Science in Communication: Exploring how understanding brain science can improve communication, especially under stress.
• Aligning Behavior with Values: The importance of aligning one’s behavior with personal values during the stressful holiday season.
• Empathy in Family Dynamics: Strategies for employing empathy to reduce tension and improve engagement within family interactions.
• Ethical Considerations in Changing Family Dynamics: Ethical implications of attempting to change family members’ behaviors to align with personal desires.
• The Importance of Celebrating Rituals and Joy: A discussion on the significance of maintaining rituals and finding joy in holiday traditions.
• Navigating Expectations and Boundaries: How to manage expectations and maintain healthy boundaries with family and friends during the holidays.
• The Spirit of the Holiday Season Beyond Clinical Tools: Reflecting on the essence of the holiday spirit beyond just clinical communication strategies.
• Self-Reflection and Personal Growth: Emphasizing the importance of self-reflection and personal growth in improving communication and relationships.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

 Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve.

Welcome to the communication solution.

Hey, welcome everyone. This is Danielle Cantin. I am facilitating the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. Hi guys. Hey. Hey, hey, thanks so much for joining us today.  I’ve got a fun topic for us to discuss.  The holidays are upon us, and it seems like it starts earlier and earlier every year.

 And I’m just curious as I’m starting to interact more and more with friends and family. And talking to other people and the stress that creeps up. So I thought that’d be a great topic to dive into.  Just stress in general around the holidays and where that little segue or interaction is or how motivational interviewing could potentially help.

This is one of those ones, Danielle, that I think it’ll be fun to differentiate healthy communication from motivational interviewing.  There. Because fundamentally motivationally, the constructs that I think would work well during stressful times or stressful family situations are things where are you trying to reduce resistance or tension or discord?

Absolutely. For some people during the holidays, that is, that would be a gift,  under the tree is if there’s a little less stress or discord amongst family members or friends.  So there’s aspects of MI that we know that can do that. But it’s not fundamentally, well, maybe it is about behavior change.

 But then there’s more, I know John would love to dive into the ethics of trying to get your family members to change,  just because you want them to, and is that, am I,  but I think it is a fascinating topic to talk about it. What I would even launch a little bit with is just my brain goes to brain science because I’m just so immersed in that right now, just trying to understand better and look at trauma.

And the more pressure we feel, I think your point, especially about how early it starts now,  you know, I know in our house, it was the day after Halloween that Christmas tree started going up,  which tends to draw a lot of ire from some people,  like it’s, you do not do that before Thanksgiving and, you know, just so already it creates tension.

 It makes us happy and that’s pretty much our behavior in line with our values.  But I think when it starts earlier, the pressure starts more and more and. Again, I think there’s combining features. I think one of the features to me is that when we know we’re moving to the holidays as adults, what we know is, Hey, if I can get a little extra time off or, you know, which means I’m trying to get all my ducks in a row before I leave work, which creates stress.

And then you get home because you’re probably working a few more extra hours or trying to get more things done. And then it feels like there’s a little different pressure. It just is going to pull us into our limbic system, that emotional system, or maybe into the fight flight freeze system, which makes us a little more on edge or a little more nervy,  when people are putting more expectation on us.

So, and then usually people that oversee us have their stressors. So then they’re saying, Hey, I need you to pick this thing up. And you’re like, well, I’m ready to try to pick up extra things. Cause I’m trying to take some extra time off. And I’ve got to get all this stuff done. And then we’ve got this party we need to go to.

And I don’t even want to go to this party. And, you know, we’ve got to go and I’ve got to go to my spouse’s party and I don’t even want to do that. So the brain is just going to start to get more and more in that defense. Motor that fight, flight freeze mode. And then all of a sudden the holidays become not fun.

For people,  you know, and whose families do we have to hit and, and, you know, which friends do we have to go visit? And, and all of a sudden the joy starts to seep out of, you know, a time of the year. That’s supposed to be, you know, wonderful for at least in construct, it’s supposed to be the most wonderful time of the year.

 And then it’s been some of the most miserable time of the year. So that’s just off the top of my head, kind of rambling about some thoughts that I have. Well, yeah. And that’s where I’m kind of curious, Casey, what you think about this be related to EMI and healthy communication, because, you know, we were just at the international conference for this with, with mint,  a little recently.

And  It’s like, is it, is it motivational interview and becoming just helpful communication? It’s like, well, there’s a, there’s a differentiation here of what is my, and what is healthy communication. So you were starting about that and getting into kind of the thinking around the holidays. And so I’m just kind of wondering what you think might be,  some key distinct factors there or things that, you know, this is really where the, some of the pieces of MI you think would come in such as empathy or some of these others Versus, you know,  maybe other pieces like strategically responding to change talk or other things that maybe you don’t do as much for, you know, communication with your family.

I don’t know what are your thoughts about the difference there practically or concretely or more tangibly. I, you know, you and I discussed this quite a bit. I remember the ethics, you know, breakout session, I went to motivation being an ethics and I told you part of my itchiness around that was that people were talking about applications of MI and then acknowledging it might not score high in, in a spirit of motivational interviewing or what we call the intentions with the MICA.

And I think, well, then it’s not motivational interviewing. You know, I think, I think that’s where we get looped in. It’s like, well, I tried to use that mind. Then you listen to the conversation like, well, you did reflective listening and you did open ended questions, but that’s not motivational interviewing.

You know, I, I always talk about that, you know, that’s flour, sugar and butter, but that doesn’t make it grandma’s recipe, but everybody thinks if you’re using flour, sugar and butter, it’s just a variation of grandma’s recipe. But the difference between a chocolate lava cake and an oatmeal cookie is significantly different, even though they both use flour and sugar.

 They’re not even close to the same thing. And I think people confuse communication skills with a communication style. Um. So, and what tends to happen when you use communication skills with friends or family, and you’re trying to use skills, people feel like you’re trying to therapize them or counsel them and can be very off putting,  and almost offensive that it’s like, you know, stop talking down to me, you know, it, it just can create all sorts of dynamics, which is to me, the antithesis of empathy, of...]]> 0:34:41 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/11/20/mi-around-the-world-international-mint-conference-in-copenhagen/ 122465401 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10563 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:28:36 -0500 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.In this episode, we discuss the recent international conference organized by the Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers (MINT), its impact, and the essence of the communication solution.

• Casey Jackson shares his excitement about the recent MINT conference and his annual attendance.
• MINT stands for the Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers, a global community of trainers and practitioners.
• The founders of MINT are committed to making motivational interviewing accessible and international.
• Over 50% of the board members of MINT are from outside the United States, emphasizing its global reach.
• The conference alternates between locations in North America and international venues, fostering diversity.
• Casey and Danielle discuss the sense of community and connection with like-minded individuals at the conference.
• Dr. Bill Miller’s research on hope is highlighted, emphasizing the importance of optimism and perseverance.
• Casey illustrates how he translated Dr. Miller’s insights into practical advice to help his nephew in a difficult situation.
• The podcast emphasizes the value of motivational interviewing as a method to improve communication, understanding, and human connection.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

  Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication, we love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve.

Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world. Hi everyone. This is Danielle Cantin, your facilitator for the communication solution, a podcast with Casey Jackson here, and we’re going to talk about everything that we love about motivational interviewing.  It particularly excited Casey to hear about mint, the conference you just came back from the international conference.

You go to it every year. And for those of you listening, thank you so much for joining us. And  just so you know, MINT is the motivational interviewing network of trainers. So let’s chat with Casey. How did it go?  Tell us about it. It was awesome. I mean, I look forward to it every year.  I will say that part of my part of my bias is that I just get to connect with people from around the world that I just are dear, dear, dear friends.

I mean, Just imagine, Danielle, if you know, I know you attend a lot of things that if you get to go to a conference specifically with people from your own kind of cut from the same tribal cloth that you’re cut from,  and then imagine 400 people cut from that, from that cloth, that’s, that’s the, that’s the magic that I get to participate in, you know, annually, one of the things that’s fascinating about, I think that I’m so in awe of.

The founders of motivation and what the board has really focused on. Is making sure that it is accessible. And that really is an international group.  You know, so often when I’m doing a training, people say, well, you know, how does my deal with cultural differences and, and,  gender differences? And does my respond to this respond this way, or does it cross cultures?

And what I love about it, even on the. On the board level,  there’s an expectation that over 50 percent are not there. They’re outside of the U. S.  So over 50 percent of the board members and non English speaking. And the other thing that’s really cool, and it’s it’s fun if you like to travel. Is that,  they tried to alternate every year that it’ll be within kind of Canada, the United States one year, and then outside of that,  on the alternate years.

So this year was in Copenhagen,  Denmark, and next year will be in Christchurch,  New Zealand.  So, but one of them. Best parts is I just get to meet up with people that I just absolutely love and respect and adore who speak the same. Am I language that I do? So it’s just, it’s a wonderful experience.

That’s so awesome. And it sounds like they’re just as committed as you and keep showing up every year, regardless of is in the world. Absolutely. I mean, this has been going on, you know, I was, we, we call it minted. I was minted in 2008,  in Ohio.  But this has been going on for three 30 years, I believe,  the whole gathering of motivation training trainers,  has been going on for, for quite a while.

So that’s awesome. Yeah. And you, I, it’s funny, I go to so many events myself, like you mentioned, and sometimes I have to laugh cause I’m like, I’m pretty sure I’m at this one just to see my people. And then I end up something out of the event or the conference anyway, but, but the main driver really is similar for me.

It’s to go find my like minded. Folks to, to kind of reset, you know, well, it’s, it’s good too, because I know that the way that I trained motivationally, I know the way that my brain has evolved the way I look at motivational interviewing. I do, I do stress a bit at times over. Do I drift away from kind of the norm or the bell shaped curve of learning and understanding and articulating motivational interviewing?

What I felt very positive about. Is for the years that I’ve been going now for 15 years that I’ve been going,  that I know my brain just tends to process differently and it’s usually stuff starts to click in my brain and I start to pursue that line of thinking and then years later it gets talked about in motivational interviewing.

So, you know, it’s like, I can get a beat on kind of where things are going and just kind of trust that. You know, for what I know as a clinician,  for my obsession with motivational interviewing kind of lean into that innovation. So I know in some ways, some of the concepts like focus mountain is still nothing that’s ever been taught in motivational interviewing.

That’s that’s not a concept that’s taught in motivational interviewing, and that’s something I developed, you know, over 10 years ago.  And now more people are looking at that and using that concept. So it’s, it’s fun to listen to what your colleagues around the world are doing, where the research is coming out, how people are applying it in very complex situations.

 And then looking at my little world of motivational interviewing and who all the people, wonderful people I get to connect with and just go, wow, it’s nice to be. On the leading edge, because my brain is just obsessed with what makes this work so effectively. Why is it so efficient and effective? And how is it having the impact that it’s having?

So the more I get a drill into that, the more I get to kind of connect with people and, and, you know, suss out, fair it out. Why is this working so well? And what’s the latest, the data showing. I love that. I appreciate just, you know, speaking with so many people that train with you within their organizations, really kind of dialing in on that difference that you bring to the table.

Why? Why? I know I’m not the only one obsessed with you. There’s so many,  And I think it’s a big piece of it really is. I admire your ability to say, I’m going to check myself. I’m going to see where, where are, where’s my goal around motivational interviewing? How am I training? How does that align with the international association?

And understanding and appreciating that you are, you know, at the forefront. So you are a bit of that innovator and then, and then seeing the, the fallout, not the fallout, but the, the follow up of other people years later, kind of tapping into what you’re doing. I really appreciate your willingness to, to go in and check on that and just say, okay, where am I with what’s happening with the rest of the world?

You know, Daniel, you and I have talked about this. I mean, there’s a thing that I do.  It almost triggers an imposter phenomenon. Like when even when you say, you know, I’m so impressed when I see you and I want to be like that. I want to talk like that. And it does trigger an imposter phenomenon. But when you were talking, what strikes me is it’s not what I do.

That’s different. I think it’s what we all want to be doing that we all resonate with. Because it’s not me specifically as Casey Jackson, because I know that’s not, there may be some truth to the way that I present it, but the only thing I’m presenting is what everybody wants to hear and what they’re seeking.

There’s a truth to it. That’s why you and I have debated, you know, do we stick with keep talking about motivational interviewing or whatever. There is a larger communication solution construct out there when we’re looking at brain science behind it as well, too. So everything I’ve learned has been rooted and based in motivational interviewing.

But I think the reason why there’s this global phenomenon with motivational learning is because people are seeking the truth and they’re seeking healing and they want to find their way back to themselves. And, and if they interact with other people, whether you’re a parent or a partner,  A psychologist or a social worker or ...]]> 0:26:34 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/11/08/unveiling-the-8-skills-that-enhance-client-outcomes-insights-from-dr-bill-miller-and-dr-teresa-moyers-workshop-ii/ 122334764 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10513 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Wed, 08 Nov 2023 07:52:47 -0500 We hope you found value in part one of this podcast. Thank you for joining us for this second segment.Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.In this episode, we continue with the enlightening workshop conducted by Dr. Bill Miller and Dr. Teresa Moyer. They delve deeper into the attributes and skills that contribute to effective communication and empathetic interaction. The conversation also touches on the potential implications for various fields, including coaching, therapy, and more, as they explore the significance of individual attributes over professional labels.

• Attributes Over Degrees: The discussion highlights the importance of practitioner attributes over formal degrees or labels in driving effective communication and positive outcomes.
• Efficiency of Outcomes: Assessing parameters related to sustained talk and change talk within the first five minutes of an interaction can be an indicator of effectiveness, emphasizing the efficiency of outcomes.
• Challenging Norms: The evolving approach to communication challenges traditional systems and structures, pushing professionals to embody essential attributes.
• Integration and Synergy: The hosts and guest contemplate the integration of these attributes across various fields and the potential synergy it can create in diverse roles, from health coaching to therapy.
• The Power of Compassion and Empathy: The episode underscores the profound impact of compassion, empathy, and positive regard in improving communication and positively influencing others.
• Hope as a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy: The concept of hope is explored further, emphasizing its role in shaping self-fulfilling prophecies and outcomes.
• Assessment and Competencies: The importance of developing assessments and competencies related to practitioner attributes is highlighted for various professional roles.
• Challenging Established Practices: The hosts and guest discuss how this evolving perspective may challenge established practices and systems within different industries.
• The Ongoing Conversation: The episode concludes with a commitment to continue exploring these crucial topics in future podcasts, acknowledging their complexity and importance.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

We hope you found value in part one of this podcast. Thank you for joining us for this second segment. Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Canton. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication, we love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve.

Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world.

Well, it really sounds like a sort of Way like that. I’ll talk about and I’m open to correction here, but like a way of being, you know, is what they talked about with Carl Rogers, but almost like some way of treating not. And you could say that similar, but then also embodied. And that seems to be this, like.

way of seeing where you are talking about the positive regard. And then if you go beyond seeing, now we’re talking almost about like believing certain things and holding a belief. So did they talk about like, You have to believe in the person or anything like beliefs because we’re starting to realm into The way I see you and the way I treat you and the way my attitude is towards you Starts to point towards how I believe if you have answers not just within you more traditionally But if I believe certain things, so I don’t know, I don’t know if that that was addressed or your thoughts on that.

It wasn’t, and, and the, the, I would say that that concept that you are articulating right now. Aspects of that kind of an event diagram fell under, positive regard acceptance and the way they were defining hope, which is really how we perceive other people. What I liked about, I think this is my learning curve is that I think I have my own biases towards certain words like hope when people are saying, well, it’s so critical, it’s a critical concept in people getting better and healing and healthy and all these things.

And it’s like, is it the airy fairy definition of hope? Or is it, is there something that we know we can replicate without it being scientific because hope is such a magical thing, right? So, I mean, just that’s where my brain waffles back and forth, but the way they talked about hope that, that, touches on what you’re bringing up is I loved what they talked about.

Hope has to do with basic, a basic concept around self fulfilling prophecy. If you think this person is not going to get better, odds are they probably are not going to get better under your care. And if you believe this person has capacity to get better, and that’s their version of hope, the way it’s defined in research, if you believe that, then there’s a higher likelihood, which is a little bit different than positive regard, and it’s a little bit different than acceptance.

Does that make sense? And that’s why they were really trying to, to, distinguish the definitions. But for what you were bringing up is how I view this person. Those are the three that immediately kind of pinged in my brain. Is there the way they were articulating positive regard the way they’re articulating acceptance and the way they were articulating hope?

It’s kind of that our perception of that person doesn’t have an impact and they can say very much so it’s, it’s, there’s like, there’s a visual coming to mind that this is like the, that am I, or the tenants of the seven eighths or six eighths we’re talking about that. Am I is. Embodying that that would be the foundation to helping of some kind and in health coaching.

That is what Dr, you know, Susan Butterworth was trying to make the case for some years ago that it’s the foundation of health coaching is motivational interviewing. It sounds like with this book and the research that it’s looking that the closest thing we got that embodies everything for 1 thing of all this.

Is my as a foundation, and then from that foundation, there can be complimentary, if not synergistic outcomes with anything you add to it. So it’s not to say that it’s the panacea. Then, as I’m thinking about this with. One of those pieces of that we were talking about. It’s that it seems to be the foundation.

Yes. Would that be accurate with the research so far? That would be accurate. And I’m going to keep going back to is that’s where they’re talking about kind of the skills or the embodiment of the individual. On the effectiveness of the model that they’re using, you know, and or even pulling away because that was, I want to make sure I state that clearly is there’s just going to be more about evidence based processes and not about the brand of treatment that you’re using the name brand.

It’s gonna be more about the processes of what the evidence shows, which processes that a person embodies has that correlation with positive outcomes. So, and I think that’s gonna be difficult because so many people want to lean into evidence based practices. Like, what is the brand name? Look at the research around this brand name.

I think that is so enculturated in professional circles. I think this, I think this is not gonna get, I think it’s gonna get a ton of a cred, a ton of credit, but I think it’s just like hand washing for physicians. I think it’s gonna be a slow role to get there because we are so culturally obsessed with what model is gonna have the most impact.

Um. And this really is going to push that differently. I don’t think it’s going to negate it, but I think it’s going to have to force people to expand their thinking because our, our natural tendency is just want to pull the neutral off the shelf, because it was branded really well. And there’s good research around it.

I think it’s gonna be difficult to bring people up to speed with. It’s about the individual.

I actually. You know, the one other thing I’ll say real quickly, too, because to finish this thought is that my guess, and I don’t know if this is going to be true or not, and I think this is probably go back to the individual, but I think fields tend to be more like social work fields. That tend to want to lean into an eclectic approach.

I think they’re going to more readily gravitate towards this construct than like a medical model approach that very much is you need to pull this tool off the shelf and this is what you use because this is what insurance is going to pay for and you’re going to need to be able to articulate that. So I think that would be my just leaping.

You know, five years ahead of where it’s going to be the sticking points. And I’m going to think from an insurance perspective, what we’re paying for is we’re not paying for you to be a good person. We’re paying for you to use these tools to fix this person as efficiently and as cost effectively as possible.

Yeah, I was just going to jump in because I love the diversity among, among us, the three of us and where our brains are oriented from. So m...]]> 0:22:12 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/11/08/unveiling-the-8-skills-that-enhance-client-outcomes-insights-from-dr-bill-miller-and-dr-teresa-moyers-workshop-i/ 122334770 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10512 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Wed, 08 Nov 2023 07:47:01 -0500 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.In this episode we explore the recent workshop conducted by renowned experts Dr. Bill Miller and Dr. Teresa Moyer, titled “What Makes Helpers More Effective?: 8 Skills That Improve Client Outcomes.” The conversation reveals the groundbreaking insights from this workshop, focusing on the importance of practitioner attributes in achieving positive client results.

• The Power of Compassion: The conversation underscores the profound impact of compassion, highlighting its role in making helpers more effective.
• Attributes Over Titles: The participants emphasize the significance of personal attributes in helping professions, advocating for a shift away from rigid role definitions based solely on degrees.
• Coaching and Dentistry: The discussion extends to various fields, including coaching and dentistry, where practitioners are reevaluating their approach to insurance-based models.
• Desperation and Timely Help: The urgency of mental health support is highlighted, emphasizing the critical need for timely assistance rather than waiting for evidence-based practices.
• Individual Trust and Connection: The trust and connection between a helper and their client are explored, illustrating how this bond can outweigh formal credentials.
• Assessing Helper Skills: The importance of developing standardized assessments for helper skills is raised, recognizing the need to measure attributes like empathy and active listening.
• Efficiency and Effectiveness: The conversation touches on the balance between efficiency and effectiveness in helping professions, suggesting that experience and degrees may impact the efficiency of achieving positive outcomes.
• The Conversation Solution’s Mission: The podcast’s mission to facilitate open conversations around effective communication is acknowledged, bridging gaps and breaking down barriers.
• Hope and Empathy: The discussion touches on the power of hope and empathy, emphasizing their role in alleviating the feeling of isolation and understanding clients on a deeper level.
• Being a Good Person as a Foundation: The conversation concludes with the idea that at its core, being a good person forms the foundation for effective helping, creating positive impacts both personally and professionally.

This has been part one of a two-part podcast. We hope you’ll join us for the second portion. Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

  Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution.

Hi, I’m Danielle Cantin, and I am here on the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. We are so excited for another episode, everything about motivational interviewing and on this particular episode, we might even take a little journey, a little bit away from motivational interviewing and always circle it back.

 thank you so much for being here. You guys,  Casey, you just came off of an amazing workshop with the co founder,  Dr. Bill Miller of motivational interviewing and his friend and colleague, Teresa Moyer, Dr. Teresa Moyer.  so they have a new book coming out. And I think you’re pretty energized about what you just experienced and it’s going to be a great podcast.

Yeah, it’s just, it’s, it is,  mind expanding, mind blowing just every time new chunks of data or new perspective comes out and this was just. Packed with, you know, kind of evolved and some new perspectives, what they set out to do. And what I liked about it, John and I have talked about this. It’s fascinating because they did not do this initiative.

through an MI lens, what they really want to do is step back, look at all of the research for the last 70 years of research on what is effective in interventions in clinical interventions,  especially those that are most associated with positive outcomes. So what they did is they just dug through 70 years of research.

And one of the most fascinating things, and this is from, you know, People are highly invested in the work they put into motivational interviewing. The way they said it, that was fascinating to me is it’s going to, it has to move or research will move people away from brand name treatments and therapies.

So because it’s less about the brand name therapy, like cognitive dialectical behavior. Behavioral therapy or,  you know, AC, just all these different therapies out there that what the research is extremely consistent about is that it’s not as much about the brand name. It’s about the actual provider or clinician.

Their attributes and what they find is those attributes have a profound impact on outcomes either positively or negatively. So it’s not about motivation per se. It’s not about CBT per se, but with the components that they found in individual practitioner or clinician embodiment of an approach is the strongest indicator and the top, you know, 7 of the 8.

Indicators are all things that we look at and measure and teach and motivational interviewing. So, so it’s not that it endorses motivation wing per se. It’s more that people that are highly skilled in motivational learning and been trained well at it and develop a level of master of proficiency embody the top, you know, six to seven out of the top eight indicators of what improves outcomes in,  in interventions.

So it just, it was just a fascinating,  way that they’ve, they’ve looked at it. The, the analogy they use that I thought was just brilliant was,  is the car or the driver, the thing that wins the race. Is it the ingredients or the chef that makes a meal phenomenal?  so yes, there’s some combination of the two, but a car cannot win a race if there’s not a great, it doesn’t matter how great the car is, if the driver is not great.

And it doesn’t matter how great the ingredients are if the chef does not know how to cook them. So it’s the same thing. It doesn’t matter the mode of treatment you’re using. If the actual one using it is not skilled. So that was just for me, that analogy just was a whole cascade effect in my brain in terms of like, wow, that is just.

Really fast and it makes sense when you hear it that way, but I think as a, you know, somebody is a social worker clinician for the last 30, almost 35 years. Now, it’s always been about going to more trainings on more models and having more tools at your disposable and more tools in your toolbox and the tools in the toolbox matter.

But you also need to be a phenomenal handyman,  or technician, you know, and the better tools you have, the better the technician can be. But if you’re not a good technician, you can have all the tools you want to at your disposal and not know how to, you know, change the light socket. So. You know, you know, what’s coming up for me on this is something that we’ve been talking about and working on for a while, because you teach and train so many organizations and motivational interviewing in a really special way.

 but our latest endeavor that really has peaked the interest of so many people who have gone through your trainings as individuals is that be the change it’s like instinctually. You’re wanting to take care of and lift up all of the individuals who are actually the ones having to implement this, this tool, this solution.

And so as you’re speaking, I’m just going, Oh my gosh, you were, you were already tapping into the importance of this in the development of the program. It is. I agree. And, and the thing that’s so interesting to me about this as well, too, is just more organically and probably the last. Year really heavily in the last six months, but in my trainings, my brain has just been so much more cognizant in being able to articulate that being skilled at M.

I. is as much or more about mindset as it is about skill set. And we just tend to teach skill set because it’s so much easier to measure at face value. It’s easier to measure if it was a question or reflection that is so much easier to measure than is somebody operating from a place of genuineness.  or positive regard.

I mean, that’s just becomes extremely complex to measure and teach. And then how much bias is put into those definitions. And so those were some of the aspects that, that,  doctors Miller and Moyers tried to tease out based on, you know, meta analysis in terms of, okay, what are. How do we get to a common definition of accurate empathy?

How do we get to a common,  definition of, you know, positive regard? How do we get to a common definition of evocation that that’s there? And why is it? Because it’s one of our, when we’ve talked about businesses before, because the reality is this. There’s also people want to be able to brand something and sell it because you can do the training market and you can do the speakers market and you can, you know, produce a workbook.

And so there’s money to be made if you can slap your brand on it. So I think in some ways it’s, it makes me a little giddy to think that while the research is showing ...]]> 0:22:32 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/11/03/digital-detox/ 122277499 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10494 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Fri, 03 Nov 2023 08:02:21 -0400 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.Today we delve into the topic of digital detox. We discuss our personal experiences with social media, emphasizing the importance of aligning behavior with one’s core values. The conversation touches on the impact of advocacy on social media, the need for authenticity, and the potential risks associated with excessive screen time. 

• Exploring the pervasive impact of digital technology and screen time on our lives, and the need for a digital detox.
• Personal experiences with digital detox, including the realization of its effects on behavior and values alignment.
• Reflecting on the challenge of balancing advocacy and social media, and the potential for generating resistance.
• The importance of seeking alignment between behavior and values in the context of social media use.
• Recognizing the potential benefits and drawbacks of social media, and the role of values-driven decisions in using it.
• Addressing the role of social media in fulfilling the human need for connection, contribution, and understanding.
• Considering the responsibility and potential risks associated with using social media platforms.
• Emphasizing the value of empathy and understanding in navigating social media interactions.
• Encouraging self-reflection and taking steps towards positive behavior change in the digital realm.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve.

Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world. Welcome everyone. I’m Danielle Cantin, facilitator of the communication solution with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert, and we’re here to talk about everything related to motivational interviewing. And it pretty much does touch every part of our world.

Today, we’re going to dive into an incredible topic. One that I’m pretty sure every single human is familiar with and it’s digital detox. Oh my God. It’s taking over our world. When I see the little screen pop up to let me know my screen time, it’s just like, Oh, So what am I doing? And that’s just me as a human.

I’m not even worrying about a child or everybody else in my life and what they’re doing, but it just can’t, it makes me think of, of how, you know, we’re trying to all connect with each other. And yet we’ve got this digital interruption that’s happening. That’s really preventing us from those deeper connections.

So with that, I want to turn it over to,  to you guys to dive into this world of digital and perhaps good ways to detox. Well, I’ll tell you what’s fascinating for me about this is just read this relatively recently within, you know, the last seven months, my two of my social media accounts were hacked my personal ones and deleted.

Which meant deleted. I couldn’t recover them.  Facebook and Instagram. Yeah. So I didn’t, I didn’t, I just know how much Casey’s,  how that’s a big deal. Well, is this part of that digital detox? That’s why I think it’s a great topic because the only thing that really bothered me, it surprised, I think I was surprised at how.

Little bit of a, little of a response that I had to that. My biggest thing was no pictures that I’d posted that I wonder if I still have them on my phone or those kinds of things. What I was annoyed with was the fact that there’s no customer service. So there’s no customer service to restore your accounts.

There’s no phone numbers. There’s no emails or nothing. You just, you just start a new one. And there was something that struck me. I was so annoyed that I just thought, you know what, if you really don’t care that much about customer service, I really don’t care that much about your product. And so I never signed up for new accounts on Facebook or Instagram,  and haven’t.

So then my spouse saw that my screen time went down so significantly that then just deactivated those accounts and it was shocking the drop in, and I’ve, and I’ve never re signed up for new accounts in the last seven months. So I don’t have an Instagram or Facebook account. I’ll tell you the things that are fascinating to me, and this is where motivation comes into it.

Is it really does push? Is your behavior in line with your values? And this is more complicated than I would have thought of. Now that I’m living it, it doesn’t mean that I’m not on, you know, I don’t check things out. You know, I’m more of a news junkie than anything else.  And a research junkie. But What I did notice that my habits are, I tend to want to forward political things that I have a really strong emotional attraction to,  and have a lot of reaction to.

And I know that for as much as it would generate people who I’m friends with jumping on board who think that way, it also generated just as much of the opposite reaction. Um. But I am such a social worker at heart and such an advocate and I believe so strongly in the things that I believe, but the push comes to shove with motivational interviewing is on one hand, my behaviors in line with my values, but in that exact same moment of pushing send or posting something, I know it’s going to generate resistance.

I know it is. I know that there’s going to be half the people that I know that are friends of mine that are going to jump on board and say, I’m so glad you posted that, you know, where did you get that link? I totally agree with you. And I know there’s going to be another handful of people that I know that automatically we’re going to go, you know, this is what I hate when Casey posted these things.

And I think that’s the human dimensionality of who each of us is, but it is so. Counter indicated when you’re looking through an M. I. Lens. So I’m not going to say it’s wrong because M. I. Is not for every situation. We need advocates in the world. We need to do all sorts of profound things that we hope will create change.

But a very bitter, bitter pill to swallow with that as well, too, is When I’m trying to do advocacy or get my behavior in line with my values or do things on social media, there’s things that I know that I’m generating resistance or embedding and deepening resistance in people at the same time. And that’s not who I want to be with my behavior being aligned with my values at the same time.

So what are, what are ways that we do that?  And I, so it’s just, it’s fascinating. To think about how do you get into digital detox when it’s so pervasive in our lives on such an emotional level, a social level, a political level, economic level. You know what I love about this? That everybody it’s such a broad topic.

If you think about detoxing from what first you have to identify what it is. So I love that you introduced right away. Are you aligned with your values? So that that because I read so many articles and points of view on social media, and if you just look at one, it can be a little confusing. Like one was how social media, everybody’s just putting on a fake persona of is there is that the reality of the life they’re living?

And I’m like, I don’t know that it ever could, because we’re not on social media all the time to, there are some people who are out there sharing every moment of their life, but,  How often that is, I’m not sure. So there’s all of these different stories around,  the digital world. So really identifying and starting with, is it aligned with, is my behavior aligned with social for me?

It’s a tool. It’s a tool I use to get messages of hope out to people to try to do something that’s going to uplift them to make them think differently.  But I do have that bit of, Oh, what are people going to think about it? And I don’t want it to, you know, get that reaction. But at the end of the day, I think when it comes to detox for me.

Is I definitely value a sense of, I don’t know if it’s autonomy or I want to be present with myself and proactive, not necessarily reactive. So when I look at my screen time and I think of social media, I’m like, ding, ding, ding, something else is driving me other than my connection with where I want my moment or day to go and the contribution I want to be.

So that’s the detox part that I’m like, Ooh, that that’s it. And I think that the part of what I think of is I just, I don’t want to contribute. And I thought about this before we even started a podcast was I don’t want to contribute to white noise. I don’t want to contribute to that. So where is it that you want to have positive messages out there?

But when so many people are clamoring, To ge...]]> 0:29:24 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/11/03/parenting-podcast/ 122277459 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10489 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Fri, 03 Nov 2023 07:47:41 -0400 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert, and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.In this episode, we discuss the concept of motivational interviewing in mindful and gentle parenting. They explore the challenges parents face, including the balance between wanting children to reflect their values and fostering their individuality. The hosts stress the importance of aligning behavior with values and navigating societal influences. A practical example is shared on applying motivational interviewing principles when dealing with a child’s low grades, emphasizing the significance of allowing children to make choices and face consequences.

• The podcast discusses motivational interviewing and its application in mindful and gentle parenting.
• Casey Jackson, a parent himself, shares her experiences with parenting, including raising twin teenage girls.
• The conversation touches on the conflict between wanting children to be a reflection of the parent versus helping them become the best version of themselves.
• They emphasize the importance of aligning behavior with values and navigating the complexities of parenting influenced by societal norms and past experiences.
• The hosts highlight the challenges of collaborative parenting and co-parenting, where different individuals with their values are involved.
• The concept of individuation in adolescents and the natural conflicts that arise during this stage of development are discussed.
• Casey shares a practical example of applying motivational interviewing principles when dealing with her child’s low grades and the importance of allowing children to make choices and face consequences.
• The hosts discuss the ethical aspect of parenting, setting boundaries, and guiding informed choices to help children align their behavior with their values.
• The podcast encourages parents to be mindful, gentle, and supportive while allowing their children the freedom to make choices and learn from their experiences.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

 Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, and organizations. Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world. 

Welcome. I’m Danielle Cantin, your facilitator of the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert, and we are here to talk about everything related to motivational interviewing and how it can help you in particular around challenging. What we’re calling mindful and gentle parenting.

Now, I’m not a parent. However, I did assist in raising 16 nieces and nephews.  so I’m really curious about this. The minute I met you, Casey, You know how I felt. I was like, what on earth is motivational interviewing? I, this can change the entire world, not just organizations and teams and businesses, but your personal life.

And, and so that’s when you dove in and talked about how it affected you on a personal level. So I thought that’d be a great topic and want to turn it over. So I am in the thick of parenting.  I’ve got. Twin teenage girls,  who just started high school, their high school career. I have a grown adult son and grandkids and, you know.

It is, I like the mindful and gentle because

it can be mindful, but it’s not always feeling like it’s gentle motivation really up that,  angle for me significantly. I think the things that I think of with, when we’re always looking for me, when I’m looking through that motivational lens, it’s always that. Narrative is my behavior in line with my values.

 where’s my ambivalence and is my behavior in line with my values. And I think what’s difficult is when there’s so much modeling around us for what good parenting is. You know, I mean, even from sayings like, you know, spare the rod, spoil the child, or, you know, when that’s what you hear, or the ways that religions talk about parenting, or schools talk about parenting, or the media talks about parenting, you know, even  Pre-social media days, you know, the books and the TV shows on, leave It to Beaver and Father Knows Best and just where do we get our input for how to parent comes from so many sources and probably the most potent source of parenting is how we were parented and, and how that sticks with us, or how it repulses us to the place where it repels us away from wanting to parent like that.

It’s just such a complex construct and I think the thing for me, one of the things that I know for myself, As I continue to try to grow and evolve as a parent is do I want to be right? Are my children a representation of me? Or do I want to bring out the best in them in terms of who they came to be? And I think those are the belief differences, you know, that is huge.

Those are three different directions that probably overlap in certain times and probably want to take one versus over the other. I could only imagine, but wow. Yeah, those three are mindful piece. Wow. And I couldn’t help Casey, as you were explaining all of what you’re dealing with as a parent, and I just had to interject and say, oh, and then.

And then blend that with, there’s a whole nother human, typically, that’s parenting dealing with all of their stuff, and you’ve got to somehow collaborate. 100%. Because the collaborative parenting or co parenting is its own difficulty. I think of it when you take that, just the relationship. Peace. You know, I talked about this when I’ve done parenting classes or relationship classes is it’s not a matter of their behaviors in line with your values because of that.

Where so much tension happens in partnerships and relationships is your behaviors not in line with my values. You know, we don’t say that explicitly, but we operate that way. You know, you’re taking me off. That’s not the way you’re supposed to load a dishwasher. That’s not the way you for laundry.  and it’s, there’s so much judgment and heat to that, which becomes then, well, that’s, that’s, we’re not giving them allowance for doing chores that they should be doing to contribute to the house.

You know, I mean, those are the points of contention in real time with real people,  in terms of how things are supposed to be, you know, quote unquote, what it’s supposed to be, what it should look like, how they should behave and how you get out of that quagmire. In parenting is extremely, extremely complex.

One of the things in a parenting class that I remember this was, gosh, probably 15 to 20 years ago, and really having parents think about, do you want to make your child be a certain way, or do you want to develop a child who makes values based decisions? Because as long as you’re telling them what to do, they are not making their own values based decisions because when you’re no longer there to tell them what to do, I always think of the example of, you know, in our culture, kids going off to college, we know that first quarter to the first year, everything from the freshman 15 to the, you know, getting themselves in trouble and grades dropping immediately, it can be GPA, but they get to college that first quarter and so many kids are first semester.

And it’s like, wow, out on their own, they’re having to learn is my behavior getting me what I want and some ways my behavior is in some ways it’s not, but to be out from underneath the thumb or the roof of the parents so often. It’s a restart of, is my behavior getting me what I want versus is it getting me allowance?

Is it getting me, you know, a weekend pass? Is it getting me to the prom? Is it getting me this? Is it giving me that? It’s just a different worldview. And I, even when I talk about, I think about from a place of privilege. I’m talking from a place of privilege that those are the conversations. So what it comes down to is for when I think of motivation and parenting, what am I trying to orchestrate?

In my Children, where their first thought is, is my behavior going to help me be who I want to be instead of is this behavior and get me in trouble with my parents? Which causes lying and deception and all sorts of other things or honesty.  but it queues it up relationship based versus internal first in terms of is my behavior lined up with what I, who I see myself as, or is this something that’s going to create tension between me and someone else?

Just be able to work with that is a really fascinating dynamic to be mindful about.

I think what you’ve said that is a fascinating word that popped for me is orchestrate. So if I can sit there, there’s two takeaways I took from you so far. And one is I’m going into a situation. I’ve got all of this baggage and stuff in my world of parentin...]]> 0:26:28 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/10/25/navigating-negotiations/ 122137097 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10443 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Wed, 25 Oct 2023 09:18:43 -0400 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.Today we explore the application of motivational interviewing in union strike negotiations and emphasize the significance of aligning behavior with values and delve into the challenges of compensation disparities.

• Application of motivational interviewing in union strike negotiations
• Importance of aligning behavior with values
• Addressing compensation disparities, including CEO salaries
• Role of empathy in reducing resistance and discord in negotiations
• Bridging visionary organizations and effective communication through MI
• Contemplating the impact of AI on negotiations and human connections

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

 Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Canton. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve.

Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world. Hi, I’m Danielle Canton, and I am here with Casey Jackson for the communication solution podcast. Hey, Casey. How are you? Good. Awesome. We are here to talk about everything motivational interviewing and how it applies to the world. And I’m very excited about today’s topic because there are so many union strike negotiations happening.

So what comes to mind for me is,  obviously Michigan. So that’s my hometown, Detroit. So what happens in the automotive world, what happens is a trickle down effect from that.  And then of course, California, the writers. So I think it’s kind of a rich topic to talk about,  motivational interviewing. So I think I’ll kick it over to you.

It is a fascinating topic. You know, my brain is always trying to run things through the MI lens first. And what I always think of fundamentally is, is your behavior in line with your values. And I think what’s interesting from, you know, not being overly versed,  in those two current union strikes that are happening, but I was watching one of the interviews where the CEO makes 29 million and got a substantial bonus.

And they’re saying, they’re just talking about what’s a livable wage and how to raise a livable wage and how do you argue against that? And it’s interesting because the CEO wouldn’t really answer that question because. It’s almost impossible to compare apples to apples when you’re talking that kind of dollar amount and different in, in wage,  what people are making, but what I always think of is how do we peel back and go, is my behavior in line with my values?

And so when I think of union workers. When they look at, you know, espousing family values, like from an organizational perspective or for  corporate perspective, you know, we’re into family values and we support our workers. And I think there’s a fundamental push to go, well, then put your money where your mouth is.

And, and so I think that generates that is the corporation’s behavior in alignment to what it espouses its values to be. This is something we’ve talked about so many times in motivation going with organizational change. I always think is the organization’s behavior in alignment with its own vision, mission.

Value statement or guiding principles and most all talk about, to some extent, not only wanting to improve outcomes or quality of life for people, but many reference their workforce and what they want to do to support their workforce as well, too. You know, we support our families. We support our workforce.

We support these things. And I think when that gets repeated or messaged enough times, I think then the workforce genuinely is like, well, wait a second. It seems like you value, you know, people at the top way more than you value people at the bottom. At least the, when we look at our, you know, Living paycheck to paycheck or, you know, busting our bodies up, you know, for the sake of producing something or intellectual rights because of, you know, a writer who’s like, nobody can create this exactly where I can create it.

There is innate value to that. So when people feel. Not valued. It starts to feel like is my behavior in line with my values. And then when that starts to percolate, then you want to look at, you know, at leadership and go, well, is your behavior in line with what you espouse to the public?  So, so again, it’s for me, it’s not a matter of right or wrong.

But when you peel back those layers from motivational interviewing, those are the things that kind of. Percolate my brain in terms of, you know, so many people are scrambling. It goes, is my behavior line with my values. And, and that’s why I think circling back around that,  that,  CEO salary, that’s, that’s a, that’s a rough one to justify,  you know, to, because most people can’t comprehend that dollar amount.

I think it was like $29 million.  It’s just so hard that an individual can earn that much money for a position that they’re in when somebody else may be making minimum wage or. You know,  what looks like fair market wage. And so I think that’s going to generate all sorts of blame outside the self and all sorts of ambivalence.

Yeah, it’s fascinating when you, you, I just love the way you look at any topic through the lens. And what struck me about what you just described was. The multitude of conversations happening in people’s heads. So you’ve got the workers, the workforce who are saying, wait a minute, you mentioned the writer, you know, it’s just like, wait a minute.

Are my behaviors aligned with my values? And then a conversation with the organization leaders saying, well, we’re touting this. Do we really believe it? Is that all aligned? Do we really want to support the workers? How does this work? And then, I don’t know, I feel like there’s a third of,  probably the, the society in general,  and how that interplays.

And what struck me when you’re describing this is. Who’s facilitating that conversation? Because they’re all having separate conversations! Yes. So how, no wonder it’s such a stressful time and feels like this moment of will we ever get through this because everybody’s in their own head. That’s exactly it.

And when you come to a table for negotiation, we can talk about win win as much as we wanted to in terms of negotiation, but there’s always that perception that somebody is going to have to give up or lose something. So I know that the, you know, the art of negotiation is to go in that with a win, win mindset.

But when you go into that individual mindset, it’s like, well, so I’m not going to get what I deserve. Or am I going to get what I deserve out of this? And I think it’s that, I mean, in a, we’re in a capitalistic society and a capitalistic society. It’s like, well, where is who’s going to get what dollars for what product?

So a writer looks at that and thinks, well, you couldn’t even have these products if I didn’t. Generate a script,  especially if I’ve generated a script that’s generated, you know, millions, multi millions of dollars and, and what I got in relationship to that really is not much. And now to have that being taken away, like I know in the, with the, the writer strike and,  some of the other strikes going on in Hollywood has to do with the, you know, the proliferation of AI right now, because, well, you’re going to use me once and pay me once and then you’re going to use my likeness.

You know, at Infini and it’s just like that, that’s not fair. That’s you’re making money off of me. And that’s a whole mindset of it. It’s profit driven. And, and this is, I know partially where the auto workers were frustrated is because it’s been some of the greatest profit margins in recent history for the automobile industry.

And they’re like, well, we’re the ones that are busting our humps every single day. And all of a sudden you’re handing over these massive amounts of bonuses. And we’re the ones that are in the field doing the work. We’re the ones in the factories. We’re the ones doing these things to actually produce. And if we didn’t do it, you’re not going to get those great big.

Bonuses, so where is the, where is the equity and sharing, which is just an ironic construct for some things fundamentally in a capitalist society that it’s like, you know, to others, unions, unionization, which is ironic because then some people talk about the whole thing about is a union, more of a socialist perspective or a communist perspective versus, you know, capitalism, which is, you know, we’ll just pay somebody else to do it, which is why there’s so many use union vesting.

You know,  mindsets out there as well, too. So it’s just fascinating. And then it, for me, the easiest way to start to sort it o...]]> 0:22:41 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/10/24/mastering-empathy-navigating-the-future-of-motivational-interviewing-in-the-age-of-ai/ 122137106 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10442 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Tue, 24 Oct 2023 18:47:21 -0400 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.In this thought-provoking podcast episode, we delve into the intersection of Motivational Interviewing (MI) and Artificial Intelligence (AI). We explore the potential implications of AI on the practice of MI, touching on topics such as emotional intelligence, genuineness, and the profound connection that occurs in human interactions.

• Exploring the profound impact of artificial intelligence on motivational interviewing.
• Reflecting on the potential of AI to emulate cognitive empathy, but the challenge of replicating emotional empathy.
• The significance of genuineness and its complexity in the realm of AI and human interaction.
• Considering the depth of connection and meaning that arises from genuine, soul-to-soul human interactions.
• Delving into the concept of spiritual intelligence and its potential role in the future of human interactions.
• Reflecting on the ever-evolving landscape of AI and the need to approach it with compassion as a moral compass.
• Embracing the role of humans as the masters of AI, recognizing the importance of individual biases and experiences.
• Discussing the potential for AI as a tool and the responsibility of humans to navigate it with wisdom and empathy.
• Playfully envisioning a podcast episode on Spiritual Intelligence (SI) as a continuation of this thought-provoking discussion.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

 Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations.

Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world. Hi everyone. This is Danielle Canton. I’m facilitating the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert, the motivational, oh gosh, motivational interviewing. I want to say nerds, experts, like the whole world of MI.  We are diving into part two,  a pretty cool conversation we had earlier about artificial intelligence.

I think we started with the implications it might have on motivational interviewing, but true to form, you two took it mind blowingly huge and wide with so many great concepts. To dial in on from, from ethical to practical,  considerations around AI. So let’s do part two and dig in and see if we can kind of rate it in for our viewers and listeners.

Well, you know, I think that they, it just struck me. It kind of my own internal joke now is just my own. How much do I have artificial intelligence,  based on my own bias about my own knowledge basis.  So. Yeah. Yeah, that’s good. That’s a good meta one. I like it.

intelligence is relatively artificial. You know, I think when we went so wide, it is hard for my brain to bring it into the here and now and go back to that. My brain always tries to go to the end of one once I go macro. But what I do look at is, Whether we’re overrun with AI, as long as there’s human experience, I really do believe that if that’s where the pendulum swings, there will be a pendulum that swings back to, I want to see a chef cook the meal at my table.

Um. Even if it tastes better by a robot doing it precisely, I think there’ll be always be a niche and there’s always going to be, you know, the potential for a pendulum swing back to, I just want to talk to a real person about real issues,  and see their perspective on it with motivation. When, when I look through the eye lens, as we talk about it, as, as I teach it, I think because I have such a fascination with equipoise.

And usually cap it when people start to understand it, that it does not mean we’re robots. And I’ve been saying that for several decades now, that just because we’re in equipoise and trying to keep our bias out of the equation, it doesn’t mean we’re robots. I’m still very actively engaged in conversation, operating from a place of deep compassion and accurate empathy and, you know, trying to draw out someone else’s thoughts and feelings.

And I think. Looking at some of those qualities, like even evocation is you do want to find a bead, you know, get a bead running on someone else’s thought process. And I do think that our little supercomputers in our skull have the capacity to, to do that, to kind of catch the beat and be able to run with a bead in a way that maybe.

Maybe I will catch up with, but I think that’s gonna be a tough one for AI to catch up with. So when John starts to talk about a topic or an issue or gets into some emotional, you know, quagmire, my capacity to try to get linked into that in his mindset, as well as his words or voice intonation. There is something that is going to be hard pressed for, you know, a computer program, you know, or even AI that teaches itself to find that beat of how do I draw out and elicit and evoke John’s thoughts and ideas,  in a way that I think is going to shape it towards a better outcome.

Or deeper into the despair, there’s a mastery of that. And I’m sure that there can be an algorithm that’s developed, but I think this is where I’m finding that where’s the safe place. You know, where will am I exist in a, in an AI world? There is something I think about our ability to. Process data so quickly in human interaction in a human way, that’s, I think, I think when I see the people that are masters in motivational interviewing, that’s what I’m always inspired by.

And I think when I watch other people listen to, like, if I have conversations or videos that I’ve done. Using motivation. It’s like, how does your brain think that fast? Like, how does it look so effortless? And I think so. There’s some things that I can replicate with that, but I think there’s aspects of it, like this mastery of it, that that is going to take a while for that to get there.

Even when I see AI images,  you know, or humans that are being generated AI, our brains can kind of process. It’s not quite right. You know, especially if I get up close to it and see an NHD, it’s like, wait a second. That’s not a really human face. Like there’s just something I can just tell the sheen is not right.

There’s just something and it’ll keep improving. But those are the things I think of with, from an MI perspective. As well, too, that there’s just, there’s, there’s nuances and depth and dimensionality that a, I probably can master, but I don’t think I’m gonna be able to master that when I look into John’s eyes, when I’m having a conversation, that’s at my base and see that something in his brain just got tripped differently because of what came out of my mouth.

And how do I pursue that,  or reimagine how I’m going to communicate that little blip that I saw spark in their brain when I opened my mouth. That point, Casey, to me, relates to a wide world that gets used a lot, just like the word empathy gets used a lot in a lot of ways, but there are actual definitions and components to it.

What I’m about to say also has a lot of depth and components to it, but it’s called EI, emotional intelligence. And how much is there even a capability of AI to have EI is its own interesting question. But EI is a big part of what I’m picking up, at least that you’re,  expressing with eyes, with a sense with, I’m going to add that wasn’t explicitly mentioned, but context of what has happened, what, what we’re in right now, what I know about you going on in your life.

Thank you. That there’s a multitude of things with emotional intelligence, of my own self regulation of stuff, your stuff. With a computer that can paraphrase, I’m wondering, for example, it’s depiction of accurate empathy and depth of that, or if that even matters. I’m wondering if… They can see the eye shift this way, or and I say, they, I wonder if the statistical algorithm that is AI can pick up on why I love you because we’re anthropomorphizing something that’s a set of algorithms.

So, yes, I was, I was, I was talking about this, I think part 1. So, yes, I appreciate you appreciate it, but it’s like, I don’t want to perpetuate. That we’re anthropomorphizing this thing, this entity. But anyways, that’s to say that is there the ability to do that? Well, first of all, we have a lot of human stuff around that, that we could work on.

We can go to Mars and do all this other stuff. There’s also a lot on this planet to take care of. Well, we can go to metaphorical Mars with AI while we continue to really probably need some help. With our own emotional intelligence. So how much do we go these routes? How much does it help learn emotional intelligence?

Maybe it does for someone on the spectrum and it provides feedback I don’t know, but I feel like what you’re talking about Casey is this Emotional ...]]> 0:29:43 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/10/15/navigating-the-intersection-of-motivational-interviewing-and-ai-balancing-efficiency-and-compassion/ 120834083 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10400 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Sun, 15 Oct 2023 19:00:50 -0400 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.Today we delve into the intriguing intersection of motivational interviewing (MI) and artificial intelligence (AI). 

• Exploring the intersection of motivational interviewing and artificial intelligence (AI)
• Discussion on the influence of AI in various industries, including branding and marketing
• Contemplating the perception of robots as nonjudgmental and its impact on human interaction
• Ethical considerations surrounding the application of AI in helping professions
• Reflection on the potential benefits and risks of integrating AI in healthcare and behavioral interventions
• Debate on the balance between AI efficiency and preserving human compassion in interactions
• Consideration of the future implications of AI on professions like coaching and therapy

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Canton. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations.

Hi, I’m Danielle Cantin here facilitating the communication solution podcast, and I’m here with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. Thanks for being here guys. Thanks for showing up, Danielle. Thank you. We’re here to talk about,  another journey of motivational interviewing, everything motivational interviewing.

And how it relates to everything else in the world. So, this topic is very hot. It’s AI, artificial intelligence. And I find it incredibly intriguing, being in branding and marketing, and how it’s overtaking that industry. Every single industry is being touched by AI and the influence of AI. And I can’t help, but go back to when I first learned about motivational interviewing, you exposed me to a particular article from the journal of Medical Internet Research,  from, I think it was a scientist, the UK and Australian scientist that said,  robots are perceived.

As nonjudgmental, more nonjudgmental than people. So I thought I’d kind of kick it off and hand it over to you guys to dive into everything related to AI. Oh, you know, and this is going to be a little bit meta, but what, which is perfect for AI is when I found that article, I was literally in an exercise for myself of not getting sucked into push notifications because I don’t want to keep feeding the algorithms.

This is just my own. Casey Jackson trying to navigate the world and not be overrun by the matrix kind of take on the, on things. And of course, so what happens, I get a push notification from CNN and the little headline on that little push notification was robots. Research shows that robots are more effective at motivation than humans.

So it’s like talk about meta in terms of, I’m trying to get out of this. And they’re throwing me an article on AI and like, it’s literally, those algorithms are that good. So of course, as I’m twitching and trying to not push the link, I obviously end up pushing the link. And my, my issue with it, and I think this is a great way to start off,  and it’s going to spark a lot of thought is when I read the article, my issue with it, because John and I, that the areas we’ve been kind of obsessed with is, is fidelity and, and measurability.

So basically when I read the research, what they were saying, the robot quote unquote robot was doing, or AI was doing. Fundamentally, when they listed the parameters, it was not doing motivation. And so that’s kind of what annoyed me that they made a correlation with motivational interviewing just because what the robot was doing was expressing empathy and,  doing positive regard and affirmations.

 So for me, what I always compare that to, you know, Daniel, you’re always asking kind of from the non clinician perspective. What does that really mean? And for me, like when I use grandma’s recipe analogy, it’s like, well, yeah, you use flour, sugar, and butter for all sorts of recipes that doesn’t make it grandma’s specifically.

It just means that there’s all sorts of things. So when you’re using unconditional positive regard and accurate empathy, that end of itself does not make it. Measurable quote unquote motivational interviewing, but what did strike me and this is where, you know, John was talking about positive regard. I think of it in terms also of equipoise is that the finding when in this research, which is where the, you know, the headline came from was it was nearly unanimous that the participants preferred the robot interaction to the human interaction.

And what was the most consistent theme, it was nearly unanimous is because the robots were perceived as nonjudgmental and that’s one of those things that is fascinating because in some ways you’d think, well, isn’t that what makes us human is having our, our little  Pieces of bias that makes us dimensional.

 But when people are trying to deal with their own issues, they really don’t care what your bias is. And so I think those are the things where it looks like, wow, you know, where are the benefits to AI and motivational interviewing? And so that’s just kind of my, it’s my brain’s kind of foray into this conversation of like, wow, this is really interesting that it’s starting to penetrate and we know it’s penetrating.

You’re talking marketing, Danielle, where John and I were talking about it in terms of. You know, applications clinically and, and,  in coaching and all sorts of other things that people are saying, you know, is AI kind of taking over the world or poised to do that. So that’s my two cents out of the gate.

Oh my gosh. I want to replay the last four minutes and 30 seconds because I had so much going through my mind, but trying to stay present and like, then letting that go and not hanging onto it. And then another thing come in and so much of this, there’s so many things around. What are we trying to do? And one of the things when we’re trying to help someone,  or we’re trying to support someone or what are we trying to do with M.

I.? What is A. I. trying to do? Because I just want to like hone it in that if A. I. right now is an algorithm set with lots of information, it can be helpful for. Information to access in some sort of a way, so long as that’s sourced from reliable sources. And that’s on a previous podcast, we talked about,  the effective psychotherapy and part of that is having information, but it’s a small part of change and sustain change and being effective with.

Getting help, right? Or, or getting guidance. So my brain goes back to maybe there’s help just in having information. I think there’s, especially for people that are interested and ready, that, that might be very helpful. Google has thrived for a reason and all that. Right. And so there’s, there’s going to be benefit well beyond, am I well beyond,  helping professions.

There’s going to be a risk beyond all that. But when we think about in relation to M I is what you were kind of interested in with this, Danielle, it’s like, well, there’s a lot that comes to mind of Casey. What you said, which is. What does it mean to be human? Does it matter?  You know, and at the end of the day, what are we, what are we trying to do?

Right? And I think just starting with those questions can be helpful because if we’re trying to find the things that are most helpful for other people, the, the whole thing you went through this morning and, and, and talking about,  with,  Training and the other podcast on,  that around effective psychotherapy.

Great. We’re getting it down. Well, what if a robot could do that? What do we want that? Or do we not want that? I think that’s, that’s kind of a bigger question here rather than. Just because we could, should we, and that’s where, that’s where I question and that might get philosophical, it might get into all my biases, I believe true equipoise is possible with artificial intelligence, true equal position, I don’t believe 100% possible from a human being.

But does that mean that we shouldn’t, that we should go for AI and not a human being? And I’ll lastly say, and then I’m curious on, on either of your thoughts on this, of course, but it’s like, to me it comes back to, do we want to train compassion out of us as a humankind or do we want to go through the, and I can say this from a, or I do say this from a very privileged pla place in a lot of ways.

But to go through what it’s going to take to have more compassion for each other over time, or feel like we can put that to AI, knowing that AI doesn’t have EI, emotional intelligence right now, and then the compassion that we are trying with MI and what it stands for, we just outsource to robots. To do what?

And I just am kind of afraid, and...]]> 0:26:36 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/10/15/learning-and-education-through-motivational-interviewing/ 120833779 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=10399 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Sun, 15 Oct 2023 18:31:00 -0400 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.

Today we are talking about applying motivational interviewing in educational settings, particularly in schools. We discuss the challenges faced by teachers and school systems, emphasizing the importance of effective communication and the potential impact it can have on students.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Back to School Season: The relevance of motivational interviewing in the context of the back-to-school season, addressing the needs of teachers and students alike.
• Diversity of Training Audience: The conversation touches on the wide range of educational settings where motivational interviewing has been applied, from Headstart programs to university-level classes.
• Pressure on Teachers: The hosts acknowledge the increased pressures on teachers in modern times, including issues like shootings, lockdowns, and the pervasive influence of social media.
• Compliance vs. Behavior Change: The discussion emphasizes the distinction between compliance models and behavior change models in education, exploring their respective roles and limitations.
• Empowering Teachers: The hosts express the need to empower teachers with effective communication skills to foster behavior change and values-based decision-making.
• Impact on Students: The conversation emphasizes that motivational interviewing, even in small doses, can make students feel heard, understood, and more open to discussing their challenges.
• Hope and Personal Agency: The hosts discuss the importance of instilling hope and a sense of personal agency in both teachers and students, enabling them to believe in their capacity to effect positive change.
• Desperation in Education: The conversation touches on the desperation felt by educators, who often grapple with limited resources, time constraints, and challenges in managing a diverse range of students.

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

This is part two of a two-part podcast. Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

 Want a transcript? See below!

Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations.

And I am your facilitator of the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. Hey guys. Hey, how are you doing? I think that an awesome topic for us to cover today is it’s back to school season. And I know that both of you teach motivational interviewing and have taught many teachers and school systems.

So as we’re all diving back into that season, and I know so many teachers and there’s so many struggles and everybody wanting to do the right thing, the best thing for our students of the world. I thought I’d turn it over to you to see how does motivational interviewing, how can that help or assist teachers, school systems?

What’s your experience been in that realm? I mean, there’s so many things that strike me, you know, I think we’ve been pretty lucky with the diversity of what we’ve been able to work with. I mean, as soon as I even start talking about this, first thing I think of is we have gone as young as. Headstart and early headstart programs and doing training for them all the way through John, just a couple of weeks ago, just to train last week, did a training at the university level, you know, so John, they do college classes as well.

So from that whole student perspective, it’s, it’s pretty fascinating. It always comes down to, you know, I think the pressure and the struggle that teachers wrestle with, I think in this day and age of, you know, shootings and lockdowns and, you know, the social media that just, So hard to keep that out of the classroom when they’re trying to keep kids focused and kids sneaking phones in it, just with that kind of pressure, it just increases that leaning heavily on compliance models.

Yeah, I think I even think about, you know, being raised in the era where you still got hacked, you know, you got spanked by the teacher or a principal and just compliance is so part of education. Even though there is that desire for behavior change, I mean, we’re giving our young children to, you know, other adults and having them spend more time with them during the day than, than parents do.

And the heavy leaning is so much on compliance just for classroom management. How do you foster behavior change and good values based decision making when you’ve got 30 and really kids and half them on their phone? I mean, I think the level of complexity has increased so much over the years. This is where I get excited about the application motivationally in an educational setting.

Well, that’s also to bring up then where is there a place for compliance, Casey, and is compliance always bad, in the classroom? I know there’s books written on this with EMI and education and, and, there’s some special specialists in Mint and things around this, but I’m just wondering your thoughts on maybe the limits of intrinsic motivation in EMI or if there are any, and it’s just a matter of setting up the conditions of the classroom to be.

You know, less people are just how you see that, how that would work in a society with unruly classroom and kids and phones. Well, you know, ironically, I use that as an example when, when we talk about in the very beginning of our intro trainings is the difference between compliance models and behavior change models.

And I tell people just fundamentally compliance models aren’t. Just unilaterally bad. That’s just not true. And one of the examples I use literally is I say, when I teach teachers, motivational interviewing, I tell them, if you’ve got a kid who’s flipping over a desk and I punch another kid in the mouth, I’m not going to amplify his ambivalence, you know, his little booty is going to be at the vice principal’s office.

 But that’s what I always follow up with. And that will not change his behavior. So compliance for classroom management will make sense, but it is not going to. It’s not going to change behavior and so where is that corridor that you’re carving out in terms of classroom management or compliance when you’re literally trying to wrangle.

 You know, and shepherd students and where can you develop a skill set or a mastery of creating these micro dose interventions that really do perpetuate longer, more sustained, healthy behavior change where, where, you know, it is the ideal educational system. And then, I mean, if you have an educational system that can manage with compliance when needed, but fundamentally fosters growth and development, and executive functioning and decision making in real time versus.

A classroom assignment. I mean that. I think that would just be a phenomenal educational setting. You know, this gives me so much hope that more and more school systems are reaching out to you to To get help so that shows it’s moving in the right direction. They’re trying and looking for these solutions What do you hear the most from from these these educational?

 Organizations that what’s the pain point that is getting them to actually look for something different, look for motivational interviewing and look, look for you. I think partially what it is is just being unaware that this exists. It is just another brand name of things that are being. Sold to school districts.

And there are so many programs because they’re not that there’s any unlimited dollars by any stretch, for teacher development, but there are just so many things to choose from. So, so what makes motivation stand out from that perspective? I think the biggest complicating factor that I’ve experienced is, I mean, on one hand, there is just the financial resource.

I, but what I think a bigger bear than financial resources is time resource. Teachers do not have time to learn a fidelity based model, and I think that’s extremely complicated. So, those are the things that I wonder about in terms of, does this have an impact? If they can only get a one hour, you know, am I training during their, it’s called lid they’re learning development, you know, once a week where they get one hour, like the dosage is really fascinating to see.

Will that work without not work? Yeah. It, you know, in speaking with so many organizations, it seems like. It seems like it takes a real commitment. And so I know once they do experience just a brief introduction with you that they get it. I mean, the light bulb goes off and they’re like, Oh, it’s what I love is the conversations around.

How do we commit in baby steps, you know, because of that time management piece, but still committing to it. Sticking with it over time. It’s just like, if you’re in it for the short race, it’s not as effective. You know, and I, I think in my experience, what I see so often is that when they feel that they can see the progress or something happened, and this is the beauty, I mean, this is why I love teaching motivational interviewing is because the proof is in the pudding.

They, even in a one hour ...]]> 0:25:59 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/04/21/exploring-advanced-mi-concepts-with-a-clinical-director-in-behavioral-health-part-ii/ 95830354 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=9641 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Fri, 21 Apr 2023 12:39:31 -0400 We hope you found value in part one of this podcast. Thank you for joining us for this second segment. We talked about motivational interviewing in behavioral health and so much more. You can find it here.

Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.

Today we continue with our very special guest, Aly Gibson, the director at Frontier Behavioral Health, a community behavioral health organization. We continue to talk with her about Motivational Interviewing concepts.

• Getting behavior in line with values
• Developing different pathways in the brain
• Acknowledging other people’s experiences
• Looking at trauma from a power and privilege perspective
• Delivering MI concepts on a broader scale
• The thinking Cortex part of our brain.
• Focus and motivation
• Stress and ambivalence
• Using MI on yourself
• Getting clear on who you are
• Cultural differences
• How does communication impact the human brain
• Difficulty maintaining access to a naive brain
• Reflective listening and empathy skills
• Aligning behavior with values
• Moving forward vs. staying stuck
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

This is part two of a two-part podcast. Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

We hope you found value in part one of this podcast. Thank you for joining us for the second segment. Hello and welcome to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host. Danielle Cantin here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world.Oh, I love that. I love that you’re a mix of all of it. And it is, I laugh sometimes cuz there’s a couple of phrases I keep reminding myself of. Feels ain’t real. . Yeah. Really? Yeah. Aren’t real. And so I have to remind myself of that and then I also love that. Okay, cool.Danielle, this is awesome. That sucked. And, you’ve got 10 minutes to have like a full on pity party. . Yes. And like putting it in a container of time or something can remember. I’m so glad I’m not the only person that does that. I literally am like, okay, timer set. Okay. Yes. And we’re done. Like, let’s move forward.That reminds me of a one-liner and a conference. I heard, there was this activity we did. The facilitator said, we’re gonna allow you to whine, but we don’t allow you to marinate in it. So and I lo I just love that, that it’s like, yeah, you can, you can get it out and then you’re done. Like there’s no marination.So I just thought that’s that same construct about Yeah, acknowledge it, it’s real. Now let’s start getting, you know, where do you wanna go from here, kind of. , but, and, and this is the thing I wanna just wrap into it in terms of I want to continue to not minimize people’s experiences because the link that I continue to make to the brain science side of it is when there is so much stress and pressure and, and trauma neurochemically, it is so hard to get up into the executive function.So it’s not just like, do, do, do, do, do. Oh yeah, that happened to you, but you know, back on your horse. It’s not minimizing on that level, the level of mindset it takes. But I also think it’s how we know that restorative process, reparative process, herbs, it, her, or, heals is repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition.So when every day you’re just trying to go, but how do I get my behavior in line with my values? But how do I get my behavior in line with my values? But how do I get my behavior in line with my values? You’re developing a new neural network. That when stress and trauma comes, you’ve got a freeway to hop on to get out of, you know, the rubble.And so I by no stretch want to minimize stress and trauma and pressure that people experience, but part of this process, . And when you think of MI for sustained long-term behavior change is you’ve gotta develop a different neural network, a different pathway in your brain that, how do I get out of the rubble when rubble happens?And it, and just because that exists doesn’t make it simple. It doesn’t make it less painful. It doesn’t mean there’s not legitimate resistance and sustain trauma there. But if you’re trying to move forward in your life, if you don’t have a freeway to get onto, that really makes it extremely complex.So, you know, that’s interesting because I like that you brought it back to the science of it. I’m always fascinated by, you know what I’ve learned from you and you know, so many of us are in a trauma state in general. Yes. The entire world from a worldwide pandemic. Still. Yes. And, and then we all have all of our individual traumas.And some people measure those, right? Like, well, that’s not, yes, that wasn’t that big of a deal. It could be my pen broke. It could be so many different things. And of course it could be really, really huge things. And so the fact that motivational interviewing addresses that and helps people in a state brain science state right in of trauma.Yes. To let them choose that other path, but it’s repetition that’s gonna help. You know, I turn the line on. Yeah. I think the other thing I need to acknowledge, and then AlI know you’ll have a ton of thoughts about any of this stuff, is I think the biggest thing I need to knowledge right now is just how lucky I am with the power and privilege that I have as a white.Because when I step back and look at the trauma, I just really, I continue to have this need inside my brain to continue to acknowledge, to not minimize other people’s experiences. And I’m in a place of power and privilege, which has allowed me to stay more in my executive functioning and not from a cultural perspective where I’ve been abused or marginalized for so many, you know, since birth, that it is much easier for me.So I think it’s, it’s, it could be trite for me to say it really is that simple. . Structurally it is simple, but actualizing that is extremely complex and so I need to get out of a, a, a privileged white male perspective and also be able to go, yeah, it, you’re right. You have been able to have these things, but you also were ahead of the line gender-wise.You’re ahead of the line race wise, you’re ahead of the line. So many other ways that of course it was easier for you to do that. Even though I’ve experienced all my own trauma, in my life, it’s, it’s just completely different when you put it into cultural context and, and we’ll look at it from a power and privilege perspective as well.So. , which I’m sure Ally, you have hundred thoughts on. Yeah. Well, I was thinking about since the training with you, I, there’ve been two huge kind of buckets, different buckets that I’ve been thinking about, and one of ’em I keep going over is like, okay, for the general population, for people who don’t have an MI background and motivational interviewing in behavioral health.

How, how do we get these simple Yeah. Very complex things delivered to them without saying, Hey, can you go see Casey and John? You know, like, I, like, I can’t take all my friends and all the people I know who are experiencing ambivalence and funnel them to someone who does mi. And so I was just thinking about like, how do we deliver these concepts on a broader scale?Is there a way to do that? You know? But I went back to kids. You know, I’m a mom. I have two kids, and I’ve really attached onto like Dan Siegel’s stuff, whole brainchild stuff to try to, like you said, deepen those neural pathways. Like I may not be able to. All the people that come to me in their life with ambivalence, be able to direct them where they need to go and give them the quick rundown of values and all of that stuff.But what I can do as a parent is I can start to help my kids spend less time downstairs. Yes. And really grow that pathway upstairs. Yes. So that when they do have issues that are huge downstairs, brain issues. They are like, Hey, look at that stairway. I can go upstairs and solve from there. And so I was thinking about the broader population and like you said, just the amount of stress and trauma across cultures, across our general population over the last three years.Yes. , they’ve spent so much time downstairs. What’s something we could give to people to help them strengthen that executive functioning, that neuroscience piece that’s attached to motivational interviewing? Cuz again, it’s very real. It’s the science piece of it. Yes. They, it’s so, so real. And there’s a way out.This Danielle, what she’s talking about with upstairs, downstairs, with the whole brain is that downstairs is when I’m ...]]> 0:28:17 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/04/21/exploring-advanced-mi-concepts-with-a-clinical-director-in-behavioral-health-part-i/ 95830351 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=9636 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Fri, 21 Apr 2023 12:29:57 -0400 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. This is part 1 of two part podcast about motivational interviewing in behavioral health. Today we have a very special guest, Aly Gibson, the director at Frontier Behavioral Health, a community behavioral health organization, and we’re talking about Motivational Interviewing Concepts.

• Casey’s professional relationship with Aly Gibson
• Aly’s role at Frontier Behavioral Health as the Director of Child and Family Outpatient Downtown and the WISE Program, a wraparound with Intensive Services for Youth
• Aly’s work with the youth Medicaid population ranges from very acute to very severe issues
• Aly’s very first train trainer training with Casey
• How Motivational Interviewing is part of Aly’s life now
• How MI helped Aly feel less stressed, less torn in all directions, and more confident
• Alignment with deeper values
• The four processes in the third edition of Miller and Rollnick’s Motivation book
• The World Values Index
• The whole Focus Mountain concept
• Goals and ultimate values
• The behavior is in alignment with values
• Life’s complexity
• Executive functioning
• Resistance and sustained talk
• Emotional reactions
• Delusional happiness and connection
• Quality of life and relationships
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

This has been part one of a two-part podcast. We hope you’ll join us for the second portion. Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

Hello and welcome to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host Danielle Cantin. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve.Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world. Hi listeners, this is Danielle Canton. We are here with the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert, and we’re here to talk about motivational interviewing. It is has become one of my favorite topics. This approach is being used to transform companies, help so many people in this episode Today, what I wanted to do, Casey and John, is dive in a little bit as you’re experts in motivational interviewing, helping companies.How do you actually use this approach in your personal life? Is it possible to use motivational interviewing for your personal growth and development? I’m kind of a geek around stuff like that, so I learn about this and I’m like, I wanna use it on myself and everybody I know. So it’s, you know, I would almost differentiate between using it on ourselves and using it for, you know, when you’re communicating with other people.I what I’ll just kinda launch with my thoughts and John dive in. In terms of, if you break it down to the basic construct of motivational interviewing, it is, is behavior in alignment with values. So if you just take it there, then motivational being itself gets into how do you communicate to orchestrate that, facilitate that.For long-term sustained behavior change. So when you take the basic components of it, it would just make sense that, well, if we’re just taking those basic components, I want my behavior to align with my values, you know, and I want to have longer term behavior change. So the basics of it is like, yeah, that, that makes sense.When you get into the communication method, I think that’s where you can have. people probably splinter into different camps of, yes, you can use it on yourself. No, you can’t use it on yourself. How would you know the difference between the resistance talk, the sustained talk, change talk? I think all those components, are viable core constructs within motivational interviewing.But I can tell you in my personal life, I use it every single day. There’s not a day that goes by that it doesn’t go through my brain. And I can talk more about that, but John, what’s, what’s your take as, as we toss that out there?Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That’s, and that’s my intention is what do you think about using it in, in personal growth for yourself? Yeah.You know, What struck me, and I’ll walk you through kind of when I was newer as a train, probably within the first three to four years is when I was training, motivational interviewing. When I first thought about, I think it’s what John is differentiating, like when I started to use it with my son versus when I started to use it on myself and.I’ll take the path when I started to use it with myself, like the construct with myself and I, and I remember exactly what the topic was. This was actually after my, the daughters were born, is when I could really specifically remember this with the twins and, cause I’m a little bit of an older dad and. I was traveling a ton, training, motivational interviewing, just traveling a ton way pre, pre, pre, pre covid.A lot of time on the road and my just gaining weight from, you know, even though I was standing a lot, but just eating a lot and just not working out and all these things. The cholesterol was just not in a good place at all actually. It was horrible. and, and I remember, I still remember, and this was so specific that I, I just am not a morning person either.So when I’m not a morning person and then when I train all day, I’m not an evening person as far as going and working out, I just mostly wanna go collapse on a bed in a hotel room and stream chopped for 12 hours and just fall into a coma, . So that’s what I tend to wanna do when I’m on the road, which is not a healthy patternSo, but what I remember when I was running it through down my lens is I can get so crystal clear what my core values are. , which is about my integrity as a parent, as a father, my desire for health and wellbeing and how so many of my behaviors were in alignment with my values and around my health. My behaviors were not in line with my values.How I broke it down even further. Because what we know is when you move to helping people get to a plan, you want confidence. , you want importance high and confidence high. So importance was very high for me. I knew I could exercise, but I just didn’t like to do it. And I, to this day, I still don’t like to do it.But I remember this conversation when I was laying in bed in a hotel room and I used the importance, confidence ruler around myself. And when I got in the habit of doing, of going, if this is this important to you, you don’t have to go to the gym. You don’t have to work out for half an hour. , but do you have five minutes to just physically, literally, and I remember doing this.I literally rolled outta the bed, outta the sheets, onto the floor and did five pushups because my confidence was really high. I could do that. And then when I did that, I ended up doing another 15 pushups, and then I rolled on my back and I started doing just some sits, which was better than if I, I’d laid there and debated it because I thought, can you just do five?Can you just roll outta bed, hit the floor, do five pushups, and then get ready for. To go do a training and that is, that’s always my reset button, is I can just roll outta bed, hit the floor and do five pushups, which end up being 20 pushups. Then I end up laying on my back and doing at least 50 sit-ups and it’s better than doing nothing.And it, it’s just, and that would increase my confidence to just kind of get into it. It’s just, don’t sign up for a gym membership. Don’t do all these things that you are not going to follow through. and, and so the way I would construct in my brain is how important is it to you to be there for your children in the long run and have a quality of health where they’re not taking care of you earlier than they need to?That’s a 10 for me. How confident are you gonna do it? Well, if I can find something I can do, will you just do this? Yeah, I’ll totally do that. And that’s how you can try to get your behavior to start to line up with your long-term behavior. That’s so awesome. I, I was gonna inter interrupt you a couple times before you were done, but you just resolved it with a nice wrap up on, I haven’t heard you talk about confidence level high.Yeah. So that’s really, really helpful and so important because like you said, you were you gonna roll outta bed and, you know, strap on all the gear to go to the gym? No. But you were like, yeah, I can totally just flop onto the floor . And then, you know, once you take that initial action, you’re gonna, you’re gonna actually probably do more, we’ll start with.More than what you, and then I would never expect more than that from myself, especially in the beginning. But what happened is it was just such a routine. Then where I would get set up is because, you know, the, the, the double-edged sword of being such close friends with John is I knew I didn’t have the confidence to be as healthy as John is.

Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.

Today we discuss motivational interviewing for personal growth and development.

• Motivational interviewing approach for our own growth
• Personalities 
• Pre-thinking about change
• Self-reflection
• Behavior change 
• Resistance or pushback 
• Blaming and excuses
• Dunning Kruger effect 
• Values and behavior
• Reconciliation
• Motivational Interviewing and Cultural Constructivism 
• Stress and pressure 
• Difference between coping and navigating skills 
• Peace of mind and fulfillment in life
• Context and culture
• Blueprint and structure 
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

This has been part two of a two-part podcast. Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is about empowering you on your journey to change the world. So if you have questions, suggestions, or ideas, send them our way at casey@ifioc.com, that’s CASEY@IFIOC.COM. For more information or to schedule a training visit IFIOC.com until our next Communication Solution podcast keep changing the world.

We hope you found value in part one of this podcast. Thank you for joining us for this second segment. Hello and welcome to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host. Danielle Cantin here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC.

We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world. Hello, welcome everyone to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert.

I am Danielle Canton, and I’m thrilled to be here. We had another podcast where we dove into how do you use, is it possible to use motivational interviewing for your own personal growth and development? And if you didn’t listen to the previous podcast, yes. The answer is yes. Oh my gosh. It’s gonna be essential, and it’s so.

such an incredible approach, but what that did was really reveal how much more there is to talk about this. Yes. So Casey and John, you’re here. Let’s dig in and what else can we explore around this idea of really using, motivational interviewing to help us in our, our own growth? John, I’m gonna kick it straight to you.

You had 15 different thoughts when we’re wrapping up, so I’ll let you just start unfolding all 15 . Oh, we’ll see how clear I can be. But Casey, you had talked about culture, you had talked about blaming outside of yourself, and what went through my mind too is this thing of certain personalities are gonna be more apt to be.

Open to new experience, certain personalities are gonna be more conscientious than others. So for different people listening to this, they might have a different, level of going into this and being like, yeah. Or a different level of, huh. But I say that because we all bring different personalities.

But if you’re interested in some kind of self-reflection and some kind of that’s the prerequisite I think I just wanted to give voice to that’s happening here. That is, in our trainings we talk about is someone in pre-thinking about change, pre contemplating stage of change. And if you’re there or you don’t, you’re working with someone or thinking about something, you’re inherently thinking about it.

You’re, you’re in a place of thinking about change and the very fact that you’re even considering. Self-reflection is, I just wanted to give voice to that, that that’s like the key to this and that if you think everything is 100% fine and there’s nothing wrong and you’re right all the time and you’re perfect all the time, or whatever that is, this is something that is obviously inherently not going to be helpful.

If that’s your thought. So I just wanted to, to highlight that as a prerequisite going into this is there’s, there’s an implication we’ve been getting at that you care about growth and you’re not just seeking the isness of right now. And I just wanted to first start with that and then there’s a lot of other thoughts, but go ahead Danielle.

Sorry. Yeah, I wonder if it might be helpful too, that of course if you are interested in personal development and growth, that’s gonna be essential. So I appreciate that piece. And I wonder too, cuz some folks may not have heard the previous podcast, so a quick little recap of yes, you can use motivational interviewing, the, at least the principles, the approach, the construc.

To help guide you in your personal life for your growth and development? It is possible, and I think what I heard you guys say in that previous podcast is it’s it’s an approach that really dials in on values. So if it can help you, give you the blueprint, is what you guys had mentioned? Yes. A blueprint for, okay, there’s something in my life I wanna change, or maybe that I’m not happy with it.

Just I have ambivalence. I wanna be healthy. And the example was my cholesterol’s high, yet I’m not really feeling motivated to change my diet or exercise. How can you use these tools to, start getting to the behavior change that you want? So I kind of wanted to just do a little summary for those who may not have heard the previous podcast.

 You know, I’ll add a a bit more structure around it as well too. So, the basic components, when you think of just the basic basics of motivational interviewing is, is there resistance or pushback? Which means can we have resistance or pushback within ourselves about. I can say very much so I can have those feelings of pushback, resistance inside of myself towards a change.

I can want to debate that change within myself. Do I wanna do it? Do I not wanna do it? What’s my rationale for wanting to move forward or stay stuck? Do I wanna blame or do I wanna make excuses? All of those are core constructs that you navigate in motivational interviewing. So if you’re having that with an internal dialogue with yourself, then the core constructs of motivational can be implied because it’s gonna come down to.

Why am I blaming everybody else? I can ask myself that question, which means in and of itself, I have at least some insight that I know that I’m blaming people and do I have this willingness to move beyond the Dunning Kruger effect and just think that I’m right about everything and have enough humility to go, maybe I’m not right about everything, even though I feel like I am.

But am I willing to entertain another perspective? That’s that in and of itself. A leap for, for sometimes brains to get through in our own process. But if you do and you get into that, I always think of John going, huh? When John likes to do that, huh thing, as long as there’s a huh in your brain, then it’s like, oh, here’s a point of potential ambivalence.

Then I got reasons why I’m stuck and reasons why I wanna change. And that is the preface, that is the precursor to getting into the values. Simon Senek values piece of it, the focus mountain. Casey Jackson version, like that’s the precursor is we can’t even get into values if you haven’t even gone through the own debate or even willing to have that internal debate within yourself to see is this applicable with the net effect of how do I work to get my behavior to line up with what my values are, who I know I want to be, and who I know I am as a person.

I wanna get my behavior lined up with that. I want to be who I espouse myself to be. I want to be who I envision myself to be. That’s all of those constructs together, encompass elements of motivational interviewing. So I just wanted to kinda lay that out as we’re, as we’re moving into this part too. I don’t wanna interrupt your, your guys’, approach, but one quick question.

You said blame other people. Blame outside yourself, someone else. Yeah. Does that apply to also situations like, I’m gonna blame. My job, or I’m gonna blame my neighbor. And I’m trying not to think of people, but I’m gonna blame the weather. Yes. Okay. Or politics or, yeah. It, the, the complexity of this this’s a whole separate topic, but the complexity is, is that the further we can push it away from us, The less internal to turmoil we have, the more we get to have something to focus on outside of ourself so we can shove that discord external.

And we’re not wrestling with internal dissonance. Like, wait, did I screw up? Does my, you know, am I being the employee that I say I am? If I, you know, , could I really show up on time and not just blame traffic and all these, like, it, it, it just pushes a different thing. But our brain is, so we need to get to reconciliation inside of ourselves quickly.

So the, the quickest way to then do that is to either blame or, or excuse, is the quickest way to get to a reconciliation. If you don’t get to reconciliation, you end up with a lot of internal conflict. So the quickest way to offload those is to blame. The second easiest way is to make excuses, ...]]> 0:21:20 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/03/27/how-to-use-motivational-interviewing-mi-for-your-personal-growth-and-development-part-i/ 95108653 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=9524 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Mon, 27 Mar 2023 09:53:00 -0400 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.

Today we discuss motivational interviewing for personal growth and development.

In this episode we discuss:

• Motivational interviewing approach for personal growth and development
• Behavior alignment with values 
• Viable core constructs within motivational interviewing 
• The importance, confident ruler 
• Lifestyle Commitment 
• Choices and behavior change
• Method of communication
• Health and wellbeing
• Values and goals
• Social-cultural perspective
• Potential for conflict and growth
• Decision making
• Creating resistance
• Relationships and parenting
• Control and alignment
• Ambivalence
• Blueprint or structure for life
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

This has been part one of a two-part podcast. We hope you’ll join us for the second portion. Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is about empowering you on your journey to change the world. So if you have questions, suggestions, or ideas, send them our way at casey@ifioc.com, that’s CASEY@IFIOC.COM. For more information or to schedule a training visit IFIOC.com until our next Communication Solution podcast keep changing the world.

Join MI PLUS+ Want a transcript? See below!

Hello and welcome to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host Danielle Cantin. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve.

Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world. Hi listeners, this is Danielle Canton. We are here with the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert, and we’re here to talk about motivational interviewing. It is has become one of my favorite topics. This approach is being used to transform companies, help so many people in this episode Today, what I wanted to do, Casey and John, is dive in a little bit as you’re experts in motivational interviewing, helping companies.

How do you actually use this approach in your personal life? Is it possible to use motivational interviewing for your personal growth and development? I’m kind of a geek around stuff like that, so I learn about this and I’m like, I wanna use it on myself and everybody I know. So it’s, you know, I would almost differentiate between using it on ourselves and using it for, you know, when you’re communicating with other people.

I what I’ll just kinda launch with my thoughts and John dive in. In terms of, if you break it down to the basic construct of motivational interviewing, it is, is behavior in alignment with values. So if you just take it there, then motivational being itself gets into how do you communicate to orchestrate that, facilitate that.

For long-term sustained behavior change. So when you take the basic components of it, it would just make sense that, well, if we’re just taking those basic components, I want my behavior to align with my values, you know, and I want to have longer term behavior change. So the basics of it is like, yeah, that, that makes sense.

When you get into the communication method, I think that’s where you can have. people probably splinter into different camps of, yes, you can use it on yourself. No, you can’t use it on yourself. How would you know the difference between the resistance talk, the sustained talk, change talk? I think all those components, are viable core constructs within motivational interviewing.

But I can tell you in my personal life, I use it every single day. There’s not a day that goes by that it doesn’t go through my brain. And I can talk more about that, but John, what’s, what’s your take as, as we toss that out there?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That’s, and that’s my intention is what do you think about using it in, in personal growth for yourself? Yeah.

You know, What struck me, and I’ll walk you through kind of when I was newer as a train, probably within the first three to four years is when I was training, motivational interviewing. When I first thought about, I think it’s what John is differentiating, like when I started to use it with my son versus when I started to use it on myself and.

I’ll take the path when I started to use it with myself, like the construct with myself and I, and I remember exactly what the topic was. This was actually after my, the daughters were born, is when I could really specifically remember this with the twins and, cause I’m a little bit of an older dad and. I was traveling a ton, training, motivational interviewing, just traveling a ton way pre, pre, pre, pre covid.

 A lot of time on the road and my just gaining weight from, you know, even though I was standing a lot, but just eating a lot and just not working out and all these things. The cholesterol was just not in a good place at all actually. It was horrible. and, and I remember, I still remember, and this was so specific that I, I just am not a morning person either.

So when I’m not a morning person and then when I train all day, I’m not an evening person as far as going and working out, I just mostly wanna go collapse on a bed in a hotel room and stream chopped for 12 hours and just fall into a coma, . So that’s what I tend to wanna do when I’m on the road, which is not a healthy pattern

So, but what I remember when I was running it through down my lens is I can get so crystal clear what my core values are. , which is about my integrity as a parent, as a father, my desire for health and wellbeing and how so many of my behaviors were in alignment with my values and around my health. My behaviors were not in line with my values.

How I broke it down even further. Because what we know is when you move to helping people get to a plan, you want confidence. , you want importance high and confidence high. So importance was very high for me. I knew I could exercise, but I just didn’t like to do it. And I, to this day, I still don’t like to do it.

But I remember this conversation when I was laying in bed in a hotel room and I used the importance, confidence ruler around myself. And when I got in the habit of doing, of going, if this is this important to you, you don’t have to go to the gym. You don’t have to work out for half an hour. , but do you have five minutes to just physically, literally, and I remember doing this.

I literally rolled outta the bed, outta the sheets, onto the floor and did five pushups because my confidence was really high. I could do that. And then when I did that, I ended up doing another 15 pushups, and then I rolled on my back and I started doing just some sits, which was better than if I, I’d laid there and debated it because I thought, can you just do five?

Can you just roll outta bed, hit the floor, do five pushups, and then get ready for. To go do a training and that is, that’s always my reset button, is I can just roll outta bed, hit the floor and do five pushups, which end up being 20 pushups. Then I end up laying on my back and doing at least 50 sit-ups and it’s better than doing nothing.

And it, it’s just, and that would increase my confidence to just kind of get into it. It’s just, don’t sign up for a gym membership. Don’t do all these things that you are not going to follow through. and, and so the way I would construct in my brain is how important is it to you to be there for your children in the long run and have a quality of health where they’re not taking care of you earlier than they need to?

That’s a 10 for me. How confident are you gonna do it? Well, if I can find something I can do, will you just do this? Yeah, I’ll totally do that. And that’s how you can try to get your behavior to start to line up with your long-term behavior. That’s so awesome. I, I was gonna inter interrupt you a couple times before you were done, but you just resolved it with a nice wrap up on, I haven’t heard you talk about confidence level high.

Yeah. So that’s really, really helpful and so important because like you said, you were you gonna roll outta bed and, you know, strap on all the gear to go to the gym? No. But you were like, yeah, I can totally just flop onto the floor . And then, you know, once you take that initial action, you’re gonna, you’re gonna actually probably do more, we’ll start with.

More than what you, and then I would never expect more than that from myself, especially in the beginning. But what happened is it was just such a routine. Then where I would get set up is because, you know, the, the, the double-edged sword of being such close friends with John is I knew I didn’t have the confidence to be as healthy as John is.

You know, because that’s a, that’s a lifestyle commitment that he has. And so the level of intention he has around working out the level of intention of eating healthy, Seemed insurmountable to me. I mean, I admired it. I wanted to have that dedication to it. I’ve gotten closer from where I was to where I am now, but honestly, that was my conversion.

John and I were, that’s when he and I used to co-train a ton together and, you know, and, and travel a lot and co-train. And I remember when he showed me, One single video on, plant-based eati...]]> 0:24:21 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/03/27/looking-at-the-tragedy-in-idaho-through-the-lens-of-mipart-_-ii/ 95108345 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=9523 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Mon, 27 Mar 2023 09:40:00 -0400 We hope you found value in part one of this podcast. Thank you for joining us for this second segment. 

Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.

Today we continue to focus on the unfortunate murders in Idaho, at the University of Idaho, through the lens of motivational Interviewing.

In this episode tragedy in Idaho through the lens of Motivational Interviewing, we discuss:

• Compassion when living with trauma
• The University of Idaho’s situation
• Compassion from an MI perspective
• Primary trauma and secondary trauma 
• Compassion distinguished from empathy
• Perspective of law enforcement 
• Law enforcement survival in civilian survival and community safety
• The difference between reflective listening and high accurate empathy
• Human thought and behavior
• Extremely complex, high pressured situations 
• Strategically responding to language
• Evidence-based practices that change data 
• Vision and mission statements
• How to get behavior in line with values
• Looking at the human brain from a different perspective
• Gratification
• Job satisfaction
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

This is part two of a two-part podcast. Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is about empowering you on your journey to change the world. So if you have questions, suggestions, or ideas, send them our way at casey@ifioc.com, that’s CASEY@IFIOC.COM. For more information or to schedule a training visit if IFIOC.com until our next Communication Solution podcast keep changing the world.

Join MI PLUS+ Want a transcript? See below!

We hope you found value in part one of this podcast. Thank you for joining us for this second segment. Hello and welcome to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin, here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC we love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world.

What’s going through my mind is this thread that Casey, to me, you just brought up with a secondary trauma.

It’s like, how do you, regardless of of the work, it could be a officer that’s dealing with this level of stress. It could be a mental health social worker dealing with secondary trauma. How do you have compassion in your work when you’re constantly you know, a sense of feeling the trauma or actually traumatized with a secondary trauma. it’s so different to live it versus talk about it on like a podcast like this. And I want ’em to just bring that up because mi is a way of, of expressing compassion for another human being. You could say, well, I’m expressing compassion by pulling them off of the bridge. Or I’m expressing compassion by tasering this person, cuz it gets the overall good.

So, you know, it’s not that people don’t have compassion, it’s almost like. An expression of compassion we’re talking about here with mi. We’re obviously talking about it more from the, perspective of the officers in, in this recent way, but we could tie it back to even the person you were talking about in the Idaho situation.

How much compassion does this person feel? I don’t know how functional it is to fully unpack this, but I think what you were getting at is like, do my interpretation is that, does this person feel a sense of compassion and ambivalence about that compassion for what they’re doing to these other people?

And I think that’s something of a thread for me in this whole conversation. Can the people that are going through these things have compassion for these other humans involved? If they’re in the mind of a, you know, one of those shows, mind of a Murderer or something like that, do they have compassion? Is there ambivalence in there, like the person with the knife to the neck, or is it the officer that has compassion but is trying to compartmentalize things of how to do this day in and day out?

But how do they have. Compassion for the, the person they’re trying to be helpful for with safety. And then how does the person that’s gone through this horrific event, which I could only imagine the devastation as you were talking about, how do they have compassion? Right? And that’s where, you know, those, those different types of court programs are trying to help heal with things that have happened.

But there seems to be this thread of compassion of like, how do. Pull that thread of compassion from an MI perspective altogether. I don’t think I have the magical answer, but it doesn’t seem like MI is a way of starting to help pull a thread of compassion for everyone, for each other as best we can, which also doesn’t solve the issues of race, gender, all the inequalities dealing with all, all the things we’re talking about.

But I do want to throw that out there and see your thoughts as we’re kind of coming to an end. If you had anything else you wanted to add to that. So there’s a couple things that I want to unpack from this, and one is when we’re talking about kind of primary trauma, secondary trauma for law enforcement, because they have so much primary trauma and secondary trauma, then I wanna take the compassion piece of it too.

So we’re gonna talk about the trauma piece, we’re gonna talk about the compassion piece of it, and then distinguish that from the empathy piece all right. So in MI, our ivory tower version of it is, It’s a way of expressing com of expressing compassion. When you get into the measurement of it, there’s nothing about measuring compassion and motivational interviewing.

So this is what Miller brought into. We need to pay more attention to this, whether or not we can ever measure it. What we can measure is accurate empathy. So I, from my experience so far, there’s no way I could lead in training law enforcement about tapping into their compass. because that just culturally would not work.

That’s just not something that’s going to, because that in some ways is it’s not even a sign of weakness. It’s actually inefficient. It’s ineffective when you’re looking from a pure law enforcement perspective, because when you’re going from that perspective, you’re wasting time. What you feel is detracting from what you can assess.

So there’s no utility in how you feel, which is why you see a lot of times that law enforcement gets a perspective that they’re just cold or aren’t engaged, and they’re not healthy for our communities when they’re from that perspective. But when you look from a different angle, you’re looking at how can you assess 50 or 60 different indicators on a scene that are critical for officer survival in civilian survival and community safety.

and be compassionate at the same time. Yeah, that’s great. Most human beings couldn’t do that. But you’re having people that are expected to do that. So that’s why I wanna parse out the compassion piece from the empathy thing, the empathy con construction of it. You start to look from that angle and you and I know John, we can teach people to express accurate empathy.

The difficulty is for it to be accurate empathy. The person on the receiving end has to feel heard and understood. This is why we need to differentiate the difference between reflective listening and what is a high accurate empathy. Officers can do reflective listening. It is a much taller order for them to express high accurate empathy because they’re having to leave their worldview.

This is where you can parallel compassion and empathy when you’re, when I look from a law enforcement perspective, because both means you’re somewhat other person center. empathy or specifically other person-centered compassion is because you’re radiating the thing that you want everybody to be happier and healthier and mass.

So they’re two different things. So your mindset can have a compassionate mindset, but then there’s also the things that you have to be able to assess on scene at any given moment at time. So they’re not only assessing what’s happening in front of them assessing, they’re assessing every other indicator around the scenario as well too.

It’s just when you’re talking from a brain perspective, is extremely. Take that level of complexity. Now, when you have health and safety issues going on, what does the natural human brain do? Once a health and safety issue, it starts to drop down into the reptilian brain for survival. So you’ve got an officer who’s trying to assess all these things at the same time, trying to express, express, accurate epi empathy.

Well, part of the brain is, oh my God, I hope this guy doesn’t jump, because they’re still human. The officers are still human and they don’t want people to get hurt and they don’t want them to jump off the side of the bridge. But they’ve seen so many people jump. They can’t put a whole lot of stock into, I just don’t know if I wanna clean this one up again.

So, which can seem cold on one hand, but it’s just like, if it’s a chronic reality, it’s a chronic reality. It’s the side effect of war. There’s going to be bodies. And I think that’s the, the complexity of this is how do you main...]]> false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2023/03/27/looking-at-the-tragedy-in-idaho-through-the-lens-of-motivational-interviewing/ 95107816 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=9521 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Mon, 27 Mar 2023 09:19:00 -0400 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert, and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing and improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. Today we are talking about a tragedy in Idaho, current events focusing on the unfortunate murders in Idaho, at the University of Idaho, through the lens of motivational Interviewing.

In this episode tragedy in Idaho through the lens of Motivational Interviewing, we discuss:

• Casey’s consulting with the hostage negotiations team on a monthly basis
• The scenario of what happened at the University of Idaho
• The phenomenal podcast with Lieutenant Steve Wall from the Spokane Police Department
• Difficulties of finding a jury in those situations 
• Stress, frustration, exhaustion, and anger
• The human brain and the choices that it makes 
• Casey’s work doing substance use treatment in state and federal prisons
• Difference between behavior and intention
• Ambivalence and remorse
• Social conscience
• Premeditation
• How to get better outcomes
• Law enforcement, MI and de-escalation
• Individual mindsets
• Grief and empathy
• Stress and trauma
• Emotions and control
• And so much more!

This is part one of a two-part podcast. We hope you’ll join us for the second portion. Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is about empowering you on your journey to change the world. So if you have questions, suggestions, or ideas, send them our way at casey@ifioc.com, that’s CASEY@IFIOC.COM. For more information or to schedule a training visit IFIOC.com until our next Communication Solution podcast keeps changing the world.

Join MI PLUS+ Want a transcript? See below!

Hello and welcome to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host Danielle Cantin. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations. And the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world.

Hi, and welcome to the Communications Solutions Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host Danielle, and we actually wanna take a look at motivational interviewing through. Through a lens of current events. So often as a newbie to motivational interviewing, I find myself applying it to everything in business, in mental health, in every area of life. And of course, what comes to mind is current events, things that are in the news, things that are top of mind, creating conversations out there in the world and, and concern. So I recently heard, in terms of a current event about, Someone reaching out to you, Casey, and you’ve been hired to consult with the hostage negotiation team and I was wondering if you’d be willing to dive in and talk a bit through, talk a bit about the unfortunate murders in Idaho, at the University of Idaho and what’s happening there, and kind of talk to us about that situation through the lens of motivational Interviewing.

It’s, I mean, it’s just such a complex concept. So yeah, I think it’s fairly fresh in my mind for multiple reasons. You know, I just was asked to join this monthly, you know, be consulting with,hostage negotiations team on a monthly basis. So my brain has been very oriented to that as I immerse my myself in there further and further into that reality.

and they bring me to look at situations from a motivational perspective. So like for any of you that listened to the podcast, which I think was a phenomenal podcast, we ended up doing a two-parter with, Lieutenant, Lieutenant Steve Wall, from the Spokane Police Department. And I, there’s so much substance there in that conversation that gives me so many thoughts when I, when I look at the scenario of tragedy in Idaho and you.

I was talking about this. So many people were just saying that are, are really immersed in that story and really following it, you know, day by day following it, saying how they’re gonna have a really hard time finding a jury. Because anytime something hits national news, then opinions just are pouring out.

And it’s really hard to find a jury in those situations. And when I’m looking from a motivational perspective, like just human brain perspective, you know, so my brain is so immersed in mi, is so immersed in looking at human behavior. I always look at is, is there ambivalence in the situation for people that are involved?

I think this is part of it as well too, that there’s a confirmation bias that John loves to talk about, confirmation bias, that when we hear about these horrific. Horrific situations that cause communities, not just community in Idaho, not just in Moscow, Idaho, but all over the country, people are locking their doors again and and have more fear when they’re walking their dogs because of these incidences.

And so when you look at is the chronic stress that we’re under normally, That I, I, I just keep thinking post covid stress, covid stress, post covid. Stress pandemic is our brains are just very taxed, and as they’re very taxed with stress, we tend to get more reactive and less logical in the way we produce things.

We just get very, we just get exhausted, and the more exhausted we get, the more primal we get. So we just get angry really quick. We get emotional really quick. We get frustrated really quick, and I think I have such an acknowledgement of my humanness around that, but I think my fascination about where the human brain is, about choices that it makes and behaviors that happen is equally as fascinating to me.

And I think that’s the way that I’ve tracked aspects of, the, tragedy in Idaho. And so just with the little pieces that have come out about, you know, the, about the individual who allegedly committed these murders. The thing I always think of is, does ambivalence exist within the brain?

Did they feel two ways about the decisions as they were planning as they’re moving through this? And I equated to an extent with the years that I worked in the prison system, you know, I, I was worked in state prison and federal prison doing substance use treatment, you know, chemical dependency work and mental health work with, people who, who were incarcerated.

And so I, I really started to learn the difference between the behavior and the intention behind the behavior. And for me, you know, kind of teeing this up, what I look at is the difference between people that have no remorse and have remorse. And I can tell you, having worked in state and federal prison, I would say over 80% of the people have remorse for their crime.

If you get past the defensiveness and getting past the defensiveness is what? , what are the core constructs in motivational interviewing is how do you get past that resistance in that discord? The blaming outside the self, because everybody that gets in these complex situations, whether by, you know, what seems like choice, and has definitely a level to do with choice or feels like it’s more reactive, are knee jerk reactions, is to blame outside of ourself where it gets a little spookier for me.

is when you talk to individuals that have zero remorse, and when there’s zero remorse, that means there’s zero ambivalence. And when there’s zero ambivalence, it means motivationally doesn’t work. And when behavior change doesn’t work, we always tell people, then you kind of revert back to a compliance based model.

So it’s the same thing that I look at because I think there’s, so, there’s not massive amounts of information out, and I know there’s new information kind of being released daily, about, kind of the investigation and what they know. . But when you’re thinking about things that are premeditated, it doesn’t necessarily mean that ambivalence points didn’t exist at points during the, you know, the planning process.

And so this was something that was not a reaction because there was a fight in a bar and somebody pulls a knife or a gun, you know, this was something that was planned. There was a, a premeditation to how this unfolded. And I think what’s so fascinating to me is looking at how the brain. Worked through the ambivalence in ways that, is it really aligning with its core values or is it not aligning with its core values?

And for me, this is also, you know, having so many, you know, decades working in behavioral health and mental health. Is, is there an absence of conscience? Which is where you get into sociopathy, where people that are, you know, we see a psychopathic or sociopathic in old school terms versus somebody that just doesn’t have a social conscience, which is kinda the same construct within the person.

They don’t feel two ways about the decision. They’re, their way, they’re looking at is how to not get caught, but it’s more that the system is wrong and the individuals are wrong. And if you peel back all the layers, they genuinely don’t feel like what they’re doing is wrong. There are people. , that’s the way that they think, but that’s the way that their, their brains operate from.

I think that’s an extremely slim slice of the population. I think of when you look at some of the mass shootings and when I’ve looked at some of the mindset behind people in the mass shootings, the irony is they actually have quite a bit of ambivalence. They have a lot of righteousness, they have a lot of confirmation bias, but they believe they’re doing the right thing based on their values.

But if you peeled back ...]]> false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://podcast.show/thecommunicationsolution/episode/95011894/ 95011894 https://blubrry.com/thecommunicationsolution/95011894/how-to-use-motivational-interviewing-mi-for-your-personal-growth-and-development-part-ii/ The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Fri, 24 Mar 2023 09:05:00 -0400 We hope you found value in part one of this podcast. Thank you for joining us for this second segment. 

Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.

Today we discuss motivational interviewing for personal growth and development.

• Motivational interviewing approach for our own growth
• Personalities 
• Pre-thinking about change
• Self-reflection
• Behavior change 
• Resistance or pushback 
• Blaming and excuses
• Dunning Kruger effect 
• Values and behavior
• Reconciliation
• Motivational Interviewing and Cultural Constructivism 
• Stress and pressure 
• Difference between coping and navigating skills 
• Peace of mind and fulfillment in life
• Context and culture
• Blueprint and structure 
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

This has been part two of a two-part podcast. Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is about empowering you on your journey to change the world. So if you have questions, suggestions, or ideas, send them our way at casey@ifioc.com, that's CASEY@IFIOC.COM. For more information or to schedule a training visit IFIOC.com until our next Communication Solution podcast keep changing the world.

Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.

Today we continue to focus on the unfortunate murders in Idaho, at the University of Idaho, through the lens of motivational Interviewing.

In this podcast we discuss:

• Compassion when living with trauma
• The University of Idaho's situation
• Compassion from an MI perspective
• Primary trauma and secondary trauma 
• Compassion distinguished from empathy
• Perspective of law enforcement 
• Law enforcement survival in civilian survival and community safety
• The difference between reflective listening and high accurate empathy
• Human thought and behavior
• Extremely complex, high pressured situations 
• Strategically responding to language
• Evidence-based practices that change data 
• Vision and mission statements
• How to get behavior in line with values
• Looking at the human brain from a different perspective
• Gratification
• Job satisfaction
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

This is part two of a two-part podcast. Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is about empowering you on your journey to change the world. So if you have questions, suggestions, or ideas, send them our way at casey@ifioc.com, that’s CASEY@IFIOC.COM. For more information or to schedule a training visit if IFIOC.com until our next Communication Solution podcast keep changing the world.

Today we are talking about the differences between the MI Geek and the Naive Brain in Motivational Interviewing.

• Reviewing the differences between MI Geek and the Native Brain
• Developing MI curriculum
• Core components and basic skills for a naive brain
• Research and the constant state of learning
• Active listening and perspectives 
• Training in different situations
• Different skill levels
• Approaching different situations
• Empathy and listening without judgment
• Dr. William Miller and his books
• The Dunning-Kruger effect 
• Stages of learning
• Human dynamics and effective communication
• Emotional intelligence
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. 

Want to see the video podcast? Join MI PLUS+

Hello and welcome to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host Danielle Cantin. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results. For individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve, welcome to the communication solution that will change your world.

Welcome everyone to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. They’re both experts in motivational interviewing and we are so excited to have this episode today where we’re gonna dig in a little bit. Casey, I’m curious you help break down the difference between motivational interviewing the MI geek versus the naive brain? Of course I’m raising my hand. I’m the naive brain here, , and you are definitely, you know, the ultimate expert. So well, yeah, and then I can point to John, who’s the MI geek. So it’s just like, it’s perfect. The same room’s, perfect I think the thing that’s fascinating, you know, we’ve touched on this on other podcasts lately.

I’ve been looking at kind of when we continue to evolve curriculum and, and when John and I have done curriculum development, we run into this all the time because the more we learn and the more obsessed we get with it, the more you want to teach people what you’re obsessed with. But there’s something that innately disrespects a naive brain that hasn’t been on the same learning curve that we’ve been on.

So it’s difficult when you develop curriculum because what you want is people to get the same experience. You got that got you intrigued in the first place. You know, the things got me intrigued in my first MI trainings or got John intrigued in his first I trainings was very basic motivational interviewing, just the nuts and bolts of motivational interviewing.

And I think that’s critical for a naive brain that really doesn’t understand what motivational is and what are the core components, what are the basic skills, what’s kind of your strategies involved in that. And what you find is, you know, John has talked about this on PAD podcasts before. When you, when you find that tribe of people within motivational thing that are obsessed with it, it really does take it to a whole different level.

And then, you know, I’m defer to John often. His natural tendency is just to do so much research and his, his curious brain is always drawing from other theories and seeing how they support, and augment motivational interviewing. So when you’re in a constant state of learning with motivational interviewing, because it’s an obsession, because it is, you know, like we’ve talked about a way of being with people, it changes who you are.

It changes how you are in your own life and how you are with other people. . It just becomes this obsession that you can never master and know everything about it because you’re talking about human dynamic. You’re talking about human behavior, and then when you start to add in gender differences and cultural differences and all these aspects that were not intended for motivational interviewing, but as you learn more about it, it’s like how can you ignore those things?

When you’re talking about human interaction, it’s what starts to take that naive brain into this kind of MI geek. , of just being kind of obsessed with how do I change as a human being? How do I help others change? How can I facilitate that process as efficiently and as effectively as possible? And when you’ve been immersed in it for, you know, like I’ve been over it 20 years and, you know, John getting close to that, you know, it’s just like your brain just becomes, it’s what you do, it’s what you love.

It’s you’re obsessed with changing the world, and how can I be more effective at helping my fellow man at being able to do. You get all these complexities when you go back to the naive brain. It’s fascinating because in some ways there’s like for you coming outta the business world, Danielle, There’s, there’s just basic communication skills that you learn in counseling that you do here in business, but you just learn ’em differently, like reflective listening or active listening, or asking good questions or open-ended questions.

So when I’m training people in the business world, it’s kind of reviewing them, but starting to look from a different angle at basic communication technique. And that for me is a naive. . But then when we go to train, maybe a bachelor’s level psychology student, they feel like they already know motivationally because they know how to do reflective listening and open-ended questions, which isn’t motivational, it’s entirety.

So there’s this naive brain that thinks that it already does it naturally because there’s core components in motivational, like empathy, and everybody thinks they’re empathetic. Everybody thinks that they’re good listeners. But when you actually measure, people don’t listen well to listen to the other person.

Even in a training I did today, one of the activities we did is how do you keep your bias outta conversation? And one of the participants said, it was so interesting to listen to my brain not shut up because it has so many opinions as I’m trying to listen. Like I could just feel my brain has so many opinions and it just wants to jump into conversation.

And so people think that they’re good listeners, but they’re not, not in the level that is expressing high empathy. And most people think they’re expressing high. , when you look at what accurate empathy is, the majority of people are not highly accurate in their empathy. They’re sympathetic. There are all sorts of things.

So again, this is this, I think what the, the naive brain thinks. And then as you get into it, you start to understand the different level of skill. The, the last thing I’ll say and then just kind of pop it over to both of you is I, I think why, for me, what’s helped me distinguish naive brain. Am I geek brainer, or kind of that, that level of mastery is why I always revert back to kind of grandma’s recipe as a model of fidelity.

Like I always say, most people in the field of helping have natural skills around, they know how, what flour is. They know what sugar is, they know what butter is, they know how to whip butter and add sugar, you know, and cream that together. But it doesn’t make grandma’s recipe dessert that she makes for Thanksgiving that everybody love.

you know, it’s so, you got the basics, but that doesn’t make it this very specific thing that requires a very specific love and a very specific attention to it. So yeah, we can make chocolate chip cookies, but I always tell people there’s a big difference between biting into a Chipsa hok, that always tastes stale to me, out of a bag or a Mrs.

Fields chocolate chip cookie that just came outta the, you know, outta the oven in the mall. Those, they’re both chocolate chip cookies, but boy, they sure taste different. Even though the majority of the ingredients are exactly the same. So those are the things you start to look at between the naive brain and the kinda the more advanced or just obsessed brain that we can get into with motivational interviewing.

John, what are, what are your thoughts when you listen to that ? Well, there’s so much around w what does it mean to listen to that? Right. Am I listening from the perspective of the listener that’s listening to this? Am I listening to all my thoughts and things I want to jump in with? Am I listening to your reality as your, the best guess at, you know, I could have of your reality as am I listening to Danielles from her angle?

Right. And I think that’s the, the kind of getting to the heart of this even deeper is we tend to. People listening from our perspective about our perspective and what is known as egocentrism, not egotistical, not being, I’m thinking I’m better. It is just we tend to see it or hear it from our perspective, and I think that’s just really important to recognize that that’s normal and natural.

and it’s not inherently wrong, and sometimes that’s what people want. And sometimes it’s more e...]]> 0:33:12 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://podcast.show/thecommunicationsolution/episode/93423066/ 93423066 https://blubrry.com/thecommunicationsolution/93423066/are-you-a-mi-geek-or-newbie/ The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Fri, 03 Feb 2023 10:58:49 -0500 Are you a MI Geek or Newbie?

Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. 

Today we are talking about the differences between the MI Geek and the Naive Brain in Motivational Interviewing.

In this podcast we discuss:

• Reviewing the differences between MI Geek and the Native Brain
• Developing MI curriculum
• Core components and basic skills for a naive brain
• Research and the constant state of learning
• Active listening and perspectives 
• Training in different situations
• Different skill levels
• Approaching different situations
• Empathy and listening without judgment
• Dr. William Miller and his books
• The Dunning-Kruger effect 
• Stages of learning
• Human dynamics and effective communication
• Emotional intelligence
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. 

Want to see the video podcast? Join MI PLUS+

Want a transcript? See below!

Hello and welcome to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I'm your host Danielle Cantin. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results. For individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve, welcome to the communication solution that will change your world.

Welcome everyone to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. They're both experts in motivational interviewing and we are so excited to have this episode today where we're gonna dig in a little bit. Casey, I'm curious you help break down the difference between motivational interviewing the MI geek versus the naive brain? Of course I'm raising my hand. I'm the naive brain here, , and you are definitely, you know, the ultimate expert. So well, yeah, and then I can point to John, who's the MI geek. So it's just like, it's perfect. The same room's, perfect I think the thing that's fascinating, you know, we've touched on this on other podcasts lately.

I've been looking at kind of when we continue to evolve curriculum and, and when John and I have done curriculum development, we run into this all the time because the more we learn and the more obsessed we get with it, the more you want to teach people what you're obsessed with. But there's something that innately disrespects a naive brain that hasn't been on the same learning curve that we've been on.

So it's difficult when you develop curriculum because what you want is people to get the same experience. You got that got you intrigued in the first place. You know, the things got me intrigued in my first MI trainings or got John intrigued in his first I trainings was very basic motivational interviewing, just the nuts and bolts of motivational interviewing.

And I think that's critical for a naive brain that really doesn't understand what motivational is and what are the core components, what are the basic skills, what's kind of your strategies involved in that. And what you find is, you know, John has talked about this on PAD podcasts before. When you, when you find that tribe of people within motivational thing that are obsessed with it, it really does take it to a whole different level.

And then, you know, I'm defer to John often. His natural tendency is just to do so much research and his, his curious brain is always drawing from other theories and seeing how they support, and augment motivational interviewing. So when you're in a constant state of learning with motivational interviewing, because it's an obsession, because it is, you know, like we've talked about a way of being with people, it changes who you are.

It changes how you are in your own life and how you are with other people. . It just becomes this obsession that you can never master and know everything about it because you're talking about human dynamic. You're talking about human behavior, and then when you start to add in gender differences and cultural differences and all these aspects that were not intended for motivational interviewing, but as you learn more about it, it's like how can you ignore those things?

When you're talking about human interaction, it's what starts to take that naive brain into this kind of MI geek. , of just being kind of obsessed with how do I change as a human being? How do I help others change? How can I facilitate that process as efficiently and as effectively as possible? And when you've been immersed in it for, you know, like I've been over it 20 years and, you know, John getting close to that, you know, it's just like your brain just becomes, it's what you do, it's what you love.

It's you're obsessed with changing the world, and how can I be more effective at helping my fellow man at being able to do. You get all these complexities when you go back to the naive brain. It's fascinating because in some ways there's like for you coming outta the business world, Danielle, There's, there's just basic communication skills that you learn in counseling that you do here in business, but you just learn 'em differently, like reflective listening or active listening, or asking good questions or open-ended questions.

So when I'm training people in the business world, it's kind of reviewing them, but starting to look from a different angle at basic communication technique. And that for me is a naive. . But then when we go to train, maybe a bachelor's level psychology student, they feel like they already know motivationally because they know how to do reflective listening and open-ended questions, which isn't motivational, it's entirety.

So there's this naive brain that thinks that it already does it naturally because there's core components in motivational, like empathy, and everybody thinks they're empathetic. Everybody thinks that they're good listeners. But when you actually measure, people don't listen well to listen to the other person.

Even in a training I did today, one of the activities we did is how do you keep your bias outta conversation? And one of the participants said, it was so interesting to listen to my brain not shut up because it has so many opinions as I'm trying to listen. Like I could just feel my brain has so many opinions and it just wants to jump into conversation.

And so people think that they're good listeners, but they're not, not in the level that is expressing high empathy. And most people think they're expressing high. , when you look at what accurate empathy is, the majority of people are not highly accurate in their empathy. They're sympathetic. There are all sorts of things.

So again, this is this, I think what the, the naive brain thinks. And then as you get into it, you start to understand the different level of skill. The, the last thing I'll say and then just kind of pop it over to both of you is I, I think why, for me, what's helped me distinguish naive brain. Am I geek brainer, or kind of that, that level of mastery is why I always revert back to kind of grandma's recipe as a model of fidelity.

Like I always say, most people in the field of helping have natural skills around, they know how, what flour is. They know what sugar is, they know what butter is, they know how to whip butter and add sugar, you know, and cream that together. But it doesn't make grandma's recipe dessert that she makes for Thanksgiving that everybody love.

you know, it's so, you got the basics, but that doesn't make it this very specific thing that requires a very specific love and a very specific attention to it. So yeah, we can make chocolate chip cookies, but I always tell people there's a big difference between biting into a Chipsa hok, that always tastes stale to me, out of a bag or a Mrs.

Fields chocolate chip cookie that just came outta the, you know, outta the oven in the mall. Those, they're both chocolate chip cookies, but boy, they sure taste different. Even though the majority of the ingredients are exactly the same. So those are the things you start to look at between the naive brain and the kinda the more advanced or just obsessed brain that we can get into with motivational interviewing.

John, what are, what are your thoughts when you listen to that ? Well, there's so much around w what does it mean to listen to that? Right. Am I listening from the perspective of the listener that's listening to this? Am I listening to all my thoughts and things I want to jump in with? Am I listening to your reality as your, the best guess at, you know, I could have of your reality as am I listening to Danielles from her angle?

Right. And I think that's the, the kind of getting to the heart of this even deeper is we tend to. People listening from our perspective about our perspective and what is known as egocentrism, not egotistical, not being, I'm thinking I'm better. It is just we tend to see it or hear it from our perspective, and I think that's just really important to recognize that that's normal and natural.

and it's not inherently wrong, and sometimes that's what people want. And sometimes it's more empathic to express that than it is to do a reflect]]> 0:33:12 false https://www.ifioc.com/2023/01/24/tell-me-again-what-is-the-point-of-motivational-interviewing-mi/ 93327405 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=9246 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Tue, 24 Jan 2023 16:27:03 -0500 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. 

Today we are talking about Motivational Interviewing. We revisited the point of MI, dialed back, and started from the beginning. Where did it come from? What does it even mean?

• What is MI?  
• Casey and John explain their history and experiences with MI
• Not a common language or a common way of thinking about things
• A method of communication that affects behavior change
• Impact on behavior change in the most effective and efficient way possible.
• The thought processes, research and experiences of Dr. William Miller and Stephen Rollnick
• Identifying motivations, thoughts and behaviors
• MI and healthcare perspectives
• Addiction and substance use world
• Acceptance and Compassion
• A different Mindset
• Ambivalence and finding peace
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. 

Want to see the video podcast?

Hello and welcome to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host Danielle Canton. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve.

Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world. Hi. Welcome to this episode of The Communication Solution with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m Danielle Canton, your host, and we are so excited today to jump into a topic. It’s like, guys, tell me what is it like? What is the point of MI?

Let’s just start from the basics. I’m so curious to kind of dial back and kind of start from the. You know, Danielle, I think what’s what’s helpful about this conversation is, you know, I’ve been training on motivational w for around 20 years now, and I was just doing a train the trainer this week, and one of the things we got into, and John and I have talked about this quite a bit in curriculum development.

You know, John and I have been working together for, you know, over 10 years now, 11, 12 years now. The hardest part for curriculum development is really understanding how do you teach to a naive brain when your brain’s been immersed in the research and the practice of MI for over 20 years. And I think, and I’m gonna jump in and just kinda laugh cuz I just kind of opened it with like, tell me again what’s the point of MI because it’s like, we literally call it MI Yes.

And there’s some people out there. What’s, what is ? It’s Michigan. I’m from Michigan. Or you know, originally I’m like, if you’re in the healthcare field, it’s my, the basically, there you go. Yeah. So lots of different people use different acronyms, motivational interviewing, and I, I, I think. I think that’s how we get so used to just talking about these things.

So second nature, and especially because it is, it literally is our full-time job is teaching and training people on motivational interviewing. So I think the more you get so oriented to it and used to it. , you think it is a common language like any other industry, and then you realize it’s not a common language and it’s not a common way of thinking about things.

So I mean, the simple way of when we say, you know, what is the point of motivational interviewing, it’s if you’re trying to affect behavior change, it’s a method of communication. And then you can keep it simple from there, or you can get extremely complex from there. And that’s, I think this kind of revisiting what is the point?

And the point is, I think originally, if I’m gonna break it down, I always think it’s effective communication, but that’s, that’s not what MI really is. It’s not what motivation really is. It really is effective communication, but specifically the intention of it is to have an impact on behavior change in the most effective and efficient way possible.

That’s why I think people get confused even with the term motivational interviewing, like where did it come from? What does that even mean? And it basically, if you look at where Dr. William Miller kind of constructed the thought from is that people have a lot going on in their lives. They struggle with a lot of decision making, with ambivalence, with stuckness.

And if you get them the chance to get some of their thoughts outta their head, it, it can help people get unstuck. Especially if you bring in. What their values are, which is what John and I have really leaned into more. But specifically around a target behavior. So, you know, this came out of the addiction world.

So people were thinking about, you know, quitting their alcohol use, cutting down their alcohol use or their substance use, smoking. And when you think about just behavior change, you can see how quickly that’s going to spread into mental health and behavioral health and. Because of diabetes, heart disease, and all these behavior changes.

And so that’s kind of where the, the construct came from is how can we be more effective in working with people. And, and part of what Miller, I think when he kind of titled it motivational interviewing, I know part of his intention was to break away from doing things to people. So he wanted to get away from it being a therapy or a technique.

And he was really just looking at the research, his own experiences anecdotally, and then researching it about when you interview people, when you just listen to them like a Barbara Walters or a Diane Sawyer, like the old school interviews, people were not defensive because you had somebody leaning in Oprah Winfrey.

They just lean in and listen. And if people are gonna lean in and listen, people are gonna talk and, but if you’re gonna shake your finger at them and tell them all the things they’re gonna do wrong, then they’re gonna get. . So instead let’s just, let’s talk to people and find out what, why would they wanna change in their life?

What would be their motive to change in their life? That’s so interesting cuz that was one of my biggest questions coming in not knowing anything about MI or motivational interviewing and just taking the name alone. I was like, motivational interviewing. So you wanna motivate somebody to do something you want.

Exactly. That’s that’s not what it is at all. It’s helping identify their motivations. Right, exactly. It. . And that’s part of the confusion too, because it’s why, you know, one of John’s lines that he started using that really helped me just get even clear about the terminology is we’re really listening for people as far as what is their motive.

 So we’re not trying to motivate them. It’s listening more deeply into what is their motive for change and, and not listening to what they wanna change per se, but what is their motive for. Yeah, that’s really interesting and I think it helps to know. Dr. William Miller was the co-founder of this approach, this communication approach.

How many years ago? Oh, a, well, the first publication, or the first research was in 80, I think it’s kind of attributed to early eighties. 84 was the first original, research project, and he, you know, he, he’s attributed being the co-founder. The reality is, is it was kind of his brainchild. . And when Stephen Rollnick , Dr.

Miller said, the only person that read the journal article was Stephen Rollnick. And so they started talking when they ran at each other to conference. And that’s where the, that’s where it became the co-founder perspective. But the original construct of it was just with Dr. Miller and his own practice as an addiction specialist and as a lecturer and as a, you know, an on faculty.

It just, these ponderings and musings that he started writing down in terms of, you know, what we do in the addiction world doesn’t. But it seems like when I do these things, it does work better. And as you started kind of noting those things and drafting some stuff up, other people are going, wow, that really makes sense.

And that’s when Steven Rok dove in and, and they just started teasing it out together. It makes sense too as a social worker. You, you as a social worker. The more I meet people, now, today, the more I’m seeing, oh, social workers are familiar with this. It’s actually built into their curriculum. Yes. Where they’re all aware of motivational interviewing, which I think is, is fascinating.

It’s like this whole language, you all. What you know, and what’s interesting about it is I tend to find that in John’s field, like in the healthcare field, in the dietician field, it’s almost more common to use that type of language out loud as a coach or as health coaches, than I even see it in social work.

So social workers think of it still as a technique. But I think there’s other industries that came on later onboard later with motivational interview. That are more into what the intention of it is from a coaching perspective and not as much from this therapy medical intervention technique. That’s still, so we use that language in social work quite a bit.

But it...]]> 0:30:00 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/12/13/motivational-interviewing-matt-fleming-and-healthcare-culture/ 92198086 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=9050 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Tue, 13 Dec 2022 17:39:12 -0500 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, Danielle Cantin and our guest today, Matt Fleming, Chief Operating Officer of Sun Sunshine Health Facilities in Spokane Valley, Washington. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. 

Today we are talking about Motivational Interviewing in Healthcare. Matt shares his incredible career path that has led him to where he is today. He provides us with the background of his journey, his passion for the elderly and how Motivational Interviewing has enhanced his career.

• Motivational Interviewing in the Healthcare Industry
• Leading people and conflict
• Being compassionate and empathetic without being emotional
• Development of leaders and investing in staff
• Training outcomes
• MI culture shift
• Team challenges
• Compliance issues
• Training executive leadership
• Stress and workforce burdens
• Ambivalence
• Motivation and retention
• Behavior and Values
• COVID and the healthcare culture
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

For those who are new to this podcast, the MICA is the Motivational Interviewing Competency Assessment. For more information or to schedule a training visit https://www.ifioc.com/.

Thank you for listening to The Communication Solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. 

Welcome, everyone. We’re so glad you’re here to join us today for this episode of the Communications Solution Podcast. I am Danielle Canton, your facilitator. I’m here with our amazing host, Casey Jackson, the Executive Director of the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, and we are thrilled to have a guest today.

Yes. We have Matt Fleming here. He is the Chief Operating Officer of Sun Sunshine Health, facilities in Spokane Valley, Washington. He’s got an incredible, career path that has led him to where he is today and Casey, we’re thrilled to have Matt join us today. Absolutely. So, Matt, thank you Danielle, and thank you, Casey for inviting me.

I’m, I’m happy to be here and. You know, talk about, share my journey in healthcare, because it really started as a passion work for me. So just to give you guys a little background, I think it’s, it’s really helpful to start from the very beginning. I didn’t, I didn’t fall into healthcare. It was intentional.

It was a decision I made when I was a young kid. I was raised in a small farm, in a community right outside of Spokane. And I did not. Farming. I did not like to be dirty. I didn’t like anything about it so, you know, that’s not great for a farm kid not to like to get dirty. So my dad said, you know what, Matt?

You don’t have to work on the farm, but you have to work. I was about 16 and he said, what do you love to and I said, well, I love old people. I’ve always, and I’ve always loved old people. Like I just was drawn to the elderly population as a young kid. Just always wanted to sit next to the little old ladies at church or whatever.

So I said, well, I, I love old people and he goes, okay, well let’s check out how to get you working in a nursing home and so just to, as soon as I, as soon as I turned 16, I drove into Spokane, and went to work at a nursing home. As got my c. In high school, I went to work at a nursing home, cna, right away.

And I knew that that was where I meant was meant to be and that’s weird for me now to look back and think, how did I know that as a young kid at 16? At 16, knowing that I wanted to land in this profession? I think that’s really rare now looking back on it. But at the time, It wasn’t, it’s just what I knew.

I, where I belonged. I loved that population. I loved taking care of them and, but I thought, you know what? I think I could do it better than it’s being done. I think if I went to school and became a nursing home administrator, I could, make a difference. In the staff, which would make a difference in the, in the elderly lives.

So that’s exactly what I did. I went to school, Eastern Washington University, graduated with a degree in healthcare administration, and you know, doors opened as they did and I landed as the first time administrator at 22 years old in Lewiston, Idaho, running a nursing home and a retirement center assisted living facility.

So it was a campus, I couldn’t believe it. I look back on that now as a COO and think, what was he thinking? Hiring this young kid as, an administrator over his, his business and. I think the Lord, I had a strong director of nurses that I think felt sorry for me, took me under her wing, and she taught me really how to be a leader and how to be a boss and how to be a manager of people.

So, you know, my career stayed kind of in that nursing home administrator profession. Roughly 20 years. I, well, maybe 15. I, I ran that building for about five and then I came back to Spokane and ran their largest nursing home. It was 164 bed nursing home here in Spokane for the next 10 years. And I, and I loved it.

I loved it. I loved leading people. I felt like I was good at it, but I’m one that doesn’t like conflict and so that was always tough for. to have those, what I would call a courageous conversation with folks. You know, I, I just, it was really tough and I, I, I remember my very first time I had to fire someone in that, in that facility down in Lewis.

And I cried. I cried with her and looking back on that now, I think, boy, I was really way too sensitive to be a leader or a boss. I just didn’t have the tools at that time in my life. I was too young. So, you know, now I’ve learned more and I’ve grown and had more experience and of course discovered mi, which gives.

The tools to, you know, have those conversations a whole lot better. You know, Matt, I’m just curious, how many, how many staff did you have with 165 bed skilled nursing? How many employees did you have? I believe it was around 220 at that time. Just around the 200 mark. Okay. So I, I was there for that period of time.

And I decided that it was time for me to do more. So I went to work for a larger regional company that owns about 30, maybe 60 nursing homes, and I ran 13 of ’em. So I was the regional vice president in Washington State running 13 skilled facilities, and that was a real wake up call to me, you know?

Being the boss of administrators, trying to have those conversations taking and it was hard on me because it took me away from the patient care, which I was, my passion, I learned to have kind of that new passion of, of growing leaders and inspiring leadership. So, so, but that was a real growth time for me, you know, when I was, you know, almost 20 years into my career.

Shifting gears like that was. After about four years with that company doing that job, I was approached and invited to apply at United Healthcare. A division of United Healthcare is called Opt and it’s a Medicare Advantage plan, specifically in nursing homes to be there. Vice president for WA from WA for Washington State, running that Medicare Advantage plan.

Well, of course I had. No background in Medicare Advantage plans, but I knew so many of the players in Washington State just based on my, my long term career. So I took it and I did that for the next four years. While I was there, I was promoted to the VP of that product line across the country. So I was the vice president of institutional special needs products, which has to do with that plan across all states.

So my plan was in, we had 60,000 skilled nursing members on my plan nd, it was a, a really important role for me to have a, my, my growth in my career because I learned how to think strategically. I learned how to. Have conversations with really high level CEOs and COOs of, of healthcare companies because I was selling this plan to them so they would allow us to sell it in their nursing homes.

It was not my bliss. I was too far away from healthcare, and as luck would have it two years ago, the owner of Sunshine Health Facilities. Called me and invited me. He said, you know, I’m looking for a new COO and I would love you to consider coming and running our company here in Spokane. Where is my home?

You know, so I thought, I have young kids. It’d be so great to get home with them and not on the road all the time and I took that opportunity and came back home and am running a very diverse healthcare company with roughly 320 employees. So more than I had, of course, at that one facility, but it’s because I have about five business lines here.

I have a home health company where we take care of people in their homes, basically skilled nursing in their homes. I have a skilled nursing facility. I have a memory. I have a behavioral health division where we have an adult residential treatment facility on campus. We have, adult family homes, four of those.

 We have assisted living, enhanced assisted living, which is a step down from skilled nursing. So, you know, managing, all those business lines and all those leaders. It was my career that brought me here to be ready to take on this challenge of my life. As I settled into my role, I had known about MI of course, and motivational interviewing and, and what it could do and, the owner is ve...]]> 0:34:01 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/11/24/motivational-interviewing-dr-william-miller-and-the-business-world/ 91674711 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=8965 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:50:04 -0500 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. 

Today we are talking about Motivational Interviewing in the business world with a financial perspective. We talk about the evolution of Motivational Interviewing and how to share The Communication Solution that will change your world.

• Ethics behind motivational interviewing being in the business world 
• The Empath Conference at which Casey is a keynote speaker, interviewing the founder of Motivational Interviewing, Dr. William Miller
• Dr. Miller and Motivational Interviewing’s role in for profit business
• The evolution of Motivational Interviewing
• Developing a leadership structure and a management structure and a workforce structure that is driven by vision, mission, and values
• Metrics and measurable results
• Productivity rates
• Bias against the corporate world
• Training outcomes
• Industry differences
• Being mindful and aware of how communication impacts the people around you
• Informed choices
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

For those who are new to this podcast, the MICA is the Motivational Interviewing Competency Assessment. For more information or to schedule a training visit https://www.ifioc.com/.

Thank you for listening to The Communication Solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. 

Welcome back everyone. And do we have a podcast for you today? It is going to be an interesting, provocative one, especially for those of you, that are interested in MI in the world of potentially business. I know I said it, so I’m not the one to introduce this out.

Casey, you are our lovely director and you will have a lot of perspectives on this. And Danielle, you come from a background with perspectives on this, so if you wouldn’t mind giving us, Danielle, a sense of  where you’re coming from with your curiosity. Thanks John. I’m excited. I was re-listening to the podcast that we did about quiet quitting and the insights that you and Casey shared, and that really spurred another conversation I thought we could touch on here.

I come from the corporate world. The business world and from a branding and marketing perspective. And so what I do is I help organizations dig in to who they really are and bring it to life in a brand campaign in, in their brand. And the biggest struggle I’ve had in my life is getting that alignment with, we can say who you are all day long, but are you really walking the talk?

So as I was listening to that, that awesome podcast about quiet, quit. And maybe think about what you are doing with your training, with the communication solution. Yes. How you are out there working with for profit companies, and businesses who typically have a financial  perspective. They’re like, they wanna grow, they wanna produce, and it’s like, You’re bringing this training, you’re bringing motivational interviewing and your expertise with this communication solution to organizations, to leadership teams, to founders.

These innovative companies are saying, We need this. And they’re kind of stepping in. And I’d love to have a conversation around what you’re seeing, how that’s contributing to quiet, quitting or, or just the growth of a business and that role. Cause I like John, your reaction was like motivational interviewing and business, you know, so there’s, there’s a lot of thoughts there.

So I don’t know if that’s a good kickoff, but that’s what I would love to discuss today. Great. It, well, it when John said that, It’s so funny because when you say that, Danielle, I can feel my own writing reflex. And I think be, Well. I know being raised in the MI world, there has been, Less than positive  feedback about that I had done some work for corporations or for businesses and it, it’s something that I, John and I talked about so much about the ethics behind it of motivation being in the business world and how does that work and, This mutual accountability, Always running the lens through is our behavior in line with our values is our behavior in line with our values of I F I O C, like we talked about in the Quiet Quitting podcast.

This was never starting. This company was never about income for me. It was about how do you share a message or how do you share a, a, a technology or a skill that will improve outcomes through this communication solution through motivational interviewing. The reaction tends to be, No, this is for healthcare, this is for behavioral health.

Don’t give this magic KO to businesses who are gonna exploit it and not make it mi anymore. And so that was just something we were so hyper conscious of and was so fascinating in this, cuz this just happened for you and I, Danielle, we were, John, you don’t know about this, but Danielle was  on a kind of a fly on the wall on a conference.

I mean the Empath Conference. I’m gonna be, a keynote. And, and I’m gonna be co-presenting with Dr. William Miller. And Daniel actually talked to me after this Zoom call with, with Bill and and she’s like, Okay, I just have to ask what’s the deal because. Dr. Miller had seemed to have no issue with motivation being in the business world, and you’ve always been so skittish around that and had such a reaction to it.

And she goes, So I just like was, Huh? Wait a second. Bill Miller, who’s the creator of mi, he didn’t seem to have a big beef with this whole thing that you seem to be anxious about. I, I think what strikes me about that, Danielle, even more since I’ve thought about that, is partially the evolution of motivational interviewing.

When I first started, you know, I always would only work with, you know, non non-profits, government agencies, you know, all those, those that. Zone and then  got bumped up over and over against, against the corporate world and about, okay, can I do this with integrity? Can I keep motivational link fidelity based and not get sucked into how do they bastardize this for profit?

And, and not make it mi but call it mi like I was so hypervigilant. So I think partly that, so much of the pressure and. Heat I could feel from people within the MI world that heard about what I was doing. I think it was a good thing to keep me on track with. How do you keep behavior in line with values for myself and then with organizations I work with.

What I could not escape is if people are genuinely gonna follow their vision, their mission, their values. I can train any organization or corporation if the executive leadership wants their behavior to be in line with their vision, mission, values, how. Embody that, how you actualize that, how you bring that to fruition for me, partially, fundamentally and partially is through how you  communicate, which is the whole function of motivation thing.

It’s the communication solution that will change your world. So for me, what I look at then is when I talk to executive leadership about how does this help us, My very pointed, not only question, Put the onus on them is, do you genuinely want your organization to be in a line with your vision, mission, and value statement?

So re reassess it and make sure that’s what you want, because I can help your workforce get in alignment with that if that’s what you really want. If it’s about bottom line, this is Danielle. When you sat in with, Sunshine Health, it’s like, if it’s about bottom line, Then you need to put that in your mission statement.

And this goes back to what we talked about in the Quiet Quitting podcast, what John had brought up about the workforce now starting to interview their employer before they take a job. So they want to know, is this really the way my job’s gonna be? Is this really the kind of company or, I know that it’s very much a, a millennial,  Gen Z perspective in terms of what do you do and why are you doing it?

And do I wanna be part of that? What we can do on the communication side of it with what we teach and, and, and provide structure and, and assistance around is how do you develop a leadership structure and a management structure and a workforce structure that is, is driven by vision, mission, and values.

What I’ve seen, and I think this is. What piqued your curiosity in the beginning when you and I had first met Danielle, is when I’d shared that there were companies I’d worked with, like in senior living whose, that they had attributed the work with motivational interviewing the work with me as what took them from that kind of 85% occupancy rate to a hundred percent occupancy rate, or a 90, you know, 8% occupancy rate and a paid waiting list.

That was, I knew that that piqued your interest. Like that was kind of a fascinating construct. So,  so what, you know, I wanna toss it a little bit back to you in terms of, as I blurred all this stuff out, what’s, what’s percolating through your brain? As you look for that kinda side Yeah. The metrics are what blows blow me away because every business I’ve worked with, every ceo, every great leader is looking for measurable results.

Yes. And until I met you, I was like, this is actually documented. It’s evidence based. It’s, it’s an incr...]]> 0:32:22 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/11/24/quiet-quitting-through-a-motivational-interviewing-lens/ 91674387 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=8875 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:38:58 -0500 Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. Today we are talking about the trend of Quiet Quitting. We are looking at it through a Motivational Interviewing lens and distinguishing what the ethics and generational differences are in the workforce today. And, how the pandemic and other issues contribute to Quiet Quitting.

• Quiet Quitting from the employee’s and employer’s standpoint
• Our perspective of Quiet Quitting and what is going on 
• Work ethic and differences across different generations 
• Looking at Quiet Quitting from the context of the pandemic
• How Family issues, social issues, community issues and political issues contribute
• Productivity and how workers spend their time
• Value, behavior and skill sets
• Loving what you do and feeling supported
• How is Motivational Interviewing supportive?
• Mindset, passion, fulfillment and a path forward
• Hiring, retention and burnout
• Autonomy vs. financial rewards
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

For those who are new to this podcast, the MICA is the Motivational Interviewing Competency Assessment. For more information or to schedule a training visit https://www.ifioc.com/.

Thank you for listening to The Communication Solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. 

October Podcast #1

Hello everyone. Welcome back. We have our team here with our very helpful and guiding leading director, Casey Jackson. Welcome Casey, myself, John Gilbert as usual. And we have Danielle, Canton, who, Danielle, if you wouldn’t mind just introducing yourself real quick, just as you are joining the.

Awesome. Thanks John. I’m excited to be  here. Just joining you and the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change has been an incredible experience. The communication solution, this podcast is amazing. I’m excited about the different topics we’re gonna be jumping in on. And thank you for letting me be a curious mind here to kind of play off of you and Casey.

Ask some questions and, introduce these. To folks out there that when they learn this communication solution, it really will change their world. Yeah. Well to that point, you came up with a topic today, but Casey, like you were gonna say something. No, that, that’s exactly it. I just wanna dive into this.

It’s fascinating as we’re, you know, as we’re always kind of digging through different topics, but this whole trend about quiet, quitting and then, you know, as we as a team, were just walking through that and looking from an MI lens., you know, distinguishing between quiet, quitting and what are the generational differences?

You know, is it quiet, quitting across all generations who are in the workforce right now? Is it different than what, you know, kind of Gen X look at, at the millennials and have kind of a bias from an ethical work ethic perspective? I so excited to dive into this, mostly because we have that cross-generational representation here on the podcast, to be able to talk about too.

I’m excited to dive into this. On the same page. And I know this is something that you both are more familiar with than I am, just the whole movement of it. So defining our terms, maybe of what is quiet, quitting, what’s going on with it. And, and from that perspective, we can then riff off of it with an MI lens.

So if either of you wouldn’t mind kind of giving your perspective on quiet, quitting and what’s going.

I’ll, I’ll give them the, just cause I know just the, the basics is the, basically people are showing up to work,  barely, that they’re doing the minimum of what they need to do, but they are no longer putting their life blood or more than they need to into the job. They’re putting in enough to collect the paycheck.

Um, you know, and I think every industry has. People show up that do that. But the scale of this is where it’s become more of a acknowledged phenomenon. Like just on a larger scale, you know, what’s the minimum job requirement? You’re not getting extra minute out of me, you’re not getting extra ounces of energy from me.

Like, I will show up and do what I need to do. And, and that’s it. So Danielle, I don’t know if there’s. More, you know, from what you’ve looked at. That’s for me just kinda the, the brief overview. Yeah. There’s so many different angles to quiet quitting from the employee’s standpoint, from the employer’s standpoint and different areas.

So I think to really keep this podcast focused, this conversation, I  like where you went, Casey, which is, you know, what is the distinguishing factor about quiet quitting? And then also are we looking at those work ethic?, differences across d different generations. . So I think kinda dialing in on that one specific piece of quiet quitting could be really helpful for this conversation, cuz if not, there’s, there’s a lot of different perspectives and conversations happening around the topic.

I’ll tell you the thing that just strikes me is what I look at so often is, you know, how do we look at workforce and how do we support workforce? and the looking like you were talking, Danielle, from an, from the individual end of one worker perspective, it is almost impossible for me. I know we, you, you can’t look at this without looking at the context of the pandemic.

You can’t look at the context with people being forced to wear masks or vaccines irrespective of where you  fall on that spectrum of your belief. . But what I look at from all the work I’ve been doing around brain science and trauma informed is I, there’s no way you can separate that from just basic exhaustion, and reevaluation.

I think. So partly, I think there’s kind of that fight, flight, freeze perspective in terms of, I think people are just so exhausted. It’s like literally dragging yourself to work on a Monday morning of just mental and emotional spiritual fatigue. And getting yourself through the day. I think the, the chronic exposure to trauma, when you look at, you know, complex trauma and, issues, there’s just, there’s no way people are gonna drink their cup of coffee and skip into work every day.

When they’ve got all the family issues and the social issues and the community issues and the political issues going on. I think people are just exhausted and can’t find reprieve. So there’s part of it that I think is that term  quiet, Quit. accurate because it seems like it’s a workforce issue versus a public health or public mental health issue.

So that’s one thing that I think of just as we’re just chatting about it before we launch the podcast. Those are things that I’m thinking about just from a brain science perspective versus a kind of a stigmatizing or a labeling perspective. What’s the accuracy of what’s going on? Yeah. There’s a, there’s a term that comes to mind as we’re kind of talking about this for coming into it, of presenteeism is what I remember hearing about, before this quiet quitting where, people are showing up to work, but.

Maybe not. You know, and these are seem seemingly are somewhat ambiguous, but Casey you were saying like something where you don’t get a minute of my time more, it seems interesting how it’s being defined, be it presenteeism or quiet quitting because it’s like, There’s almost this sense of like, what  exactly is enough?

Right? And so I see it with time, but it seems like there’s a, There there. And I know we can totally talk about our dynamic that we have here, but even for myself, it’s like, well, if there aren’t certain clear things, when is enough enough? Right? And whose angle, like you were saying, Danielle, from the owner to and, and boss to the employee, perceptions of what enough is, is it coming across in a certain way of a tonality and a resentment? Is it actual time? Like, what is it? And I think that can be very important to get clear on, I know for myself, but also for like, what are we really talking about is presenteeism, is quiet, quitting?

And how is that being perceived from different sides? So,

So yeah, . Oh my gosh. So now I have 15 other thoughts to spin off of that . I, I think of the difference, part of a trend that I experienced from moving, from being in the trench behavioral health, it was about productivity. When I very first started, there was even less about productivity in behavioral health because we could just bill.

For hours in public nonprofit, you could just bill. Then when it started shifting to managed care, you had to get in a certain number of hours. You had to see a certain number of people because it was based on risk manage. There’s all these things around productivity, so I’m just gonna stop there.

Productivity and, and part of it then there became more flexibility about hours because you know, when you think generations back, like with my parents, it was clock in and clock. There was, it was less about productivity. It was you clocked in and you clocked out and that’s what you got paid in was clock in, clock out.

When things started shifting to productivity, there was kind of this bri...]]> 0:34:50 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/10/25/open-ended-question/ 90762705 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=8485 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Tue, 25 Oct 2022 14:11:44 -0400 Welcome to today’s communication solution podcast. We love talking about motivational interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. We have an interesting topic to talk about today: Open Ended Questions and the quality and complexity of what’s being talked about. 

• Open ended questions vs close ended questions
• How do you ask open-ended questions?
• Reflective listening and empathy
• Motivations and the quality of curiosity
• Learning curves
• Mindset
• Perspectives
• Connections and values
• Real life examples of differences in questions
• Skill building
• And so much more!

The Communication Solution – Open Ended Question

Tammy: Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast today. We’ve got Casey Jackson on the line, John Gilbert, and I’m Tammy here at IFIOC. We love to talk communication. We love to talk motivational interviewing, and we love talking about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.

Welcome to the conversation.

John: All right. Welcome back everyone. We have interesting topic to talk about today. At least for me, maybe not for everyone, but we’ll see how it goes. I know that Tammy, you had particularly wanted to talk about this topic and subject because you were thinking of a situation that just starting at the basics we can talk about. But then I was like, well, we can go deep into this with multiple layers. So, I’m looking to hopefully do that with you Casey and Daniel. Today and just see how far we can get in a shorter podcast we have today. So, Tammy, what was the original kind of thinking you had for this topic? What is it, you were thinking?

Tammy: The original topic was open ended questions, 101. And the reason why is because I think some people get stuck into. A lack of curiosity sometimes because we don’t really know what to talk about. And then there’s a difference between open ended questions versus close ended questions. You closed ended questions are. Yes, no, you expect a certain specific answer. Open questions, allow for the person to openly share their thoughts and ideas. Opinions could go so many different ways. The more that we can create open ended questions, the more we can hear people’s thoughts, ideas, beliefs, all that type of stuff. So that’s kind of where my mind was at when I was like, let’s do open ended questions.

Casey: Well, what’s so funny to me is. I feel myself having a natural bias and a natural writing reflex this topic which I shouldn’t it’s so weird. And I think because so many people I’ve heard so much more lately that people are talking about, well, yeah, I went to a motivational interviewing training and it’s like, how you ask open ended questions? It’s like, oh my gosh, we’re drifting so far away from empathy and accurate, reflective listening, but. I know it’s my bias because I know I over correct on leaning so heavy into teaching people. What is high, accurate empathy? And the reality is that smart, strategic, evocative eliciting open ended questions are critical.

 Skill set to master in motivational interviewing. And I know I overcorrect towards teaching reflective listen. And so, so I’m getting over my bias and listening to that, cause it’s just like, oh, I don’t want people to think that it’s open-ended questions, you can’t do motivational without really smart, strategic open-ended questions.

Tammy: Yes. It’s part of the equation. And I think that’s a really good point, Casey, because reflective listening is critical to motivational interviewing, but there are those times where you need to elicit and draw out from people. Their thoughts, ideas or beliefs too.

Casey: Well, it, just, when you say that, I even think of the MICA, you know, the motivation incompetency assessment. And I think when we’re writing a thing about evoking in the intentions, we, measure open ended questions. We measure, evoking and, you know, I always share this and if you’ve heard other podcasts, me talking about evocation, but it just is so profound about how important open-ended questions. when I share that example of, in the cloudy cup, there’s pearls in a cloudy cup, we tend to want to throw our pearls of wisdom when people are confused when their brains are overwhelmed and again, in. The era of COVID people are under profound stress. And when they’re under profound stress, you know, they’ve got lots of pearls of wisdom. They get covered up by the trauma and stress response. And so, we can reflect that. But part of moving people from that trauma response up into their executive functioning is how do we draw out their thoughts and their ideas? Because just reflecting in circles or reflecting what’s going on inside. Doesn’t necessarily open the pathway to get them up into their executive function in the prefrontal cortex. It is the quality of a great open-ended question that, has that curiosity that evokes or elicits their thoughts and their ideas. And you see their brain work through the cloudiness to get to those pearls of wisdom inside of themselves. So, it just, even as we’re starting this topic, it’s like it’s making my brain kind of go back around with that. What we’re really talking about with, with open ended question.

John: Well, and I’d like to speak to the learning curve here, just working with so many different people and my own learning curve and still working on empathy myself, and that there’s a certain degree of. Who are we interacting with and where are they at with their degree of expression of empathy? Because there seems to be this crossover of like, if you can go deep, complex, rich reflections that are very provoking of the person to speak more. There’s something there that when you can guide that conversation, standing shoulder John: to shoulder, that someone like yourself seemingly Casey, that’s not just you. It’s about the skill I realize, but. Has this tendency, this ability to go there in ways that are worth training to, and it’s just hard to go there for various people. And so, in the learning curve of this, how do we help people transition from something that you weren’t necessarily saying at the beginning of this Tammy, but that we talked about offline before, which is out of that, fix it mode into a curious mode and just that alone is a shift. Empathy is a shift at a fix it mode, but even myself as Casey, you’re being transparent about your writing reflex. I’m having the writing reflex of what like Terry Moyers and some of these other researchers have found in recent history, which is that open verse, closing into questions matters significantly less than the quality of your curiosity. It’s less about. Do you think this, or what do you think about this? Versus I know that the quality of my curiosity is I’m asking them what they make of this situation to engage them, to get oriented to their reality, to engage and be engaged with them. I know that it doesn’t have a lot of direction to it. But I know that right now, this is going to be engaging for them. And then I can come in with the demonstration of I get you versus I don’t get you, which is the thing we’re kind of alluding to here, Casey, that you trained me in is questions, communicate. I don’t quite understand. And the person then has to, and microseconds go, what do I want to share with this authority figure usually? And then instead the empathy gets at that information maybe in a different angle. But if you are going to ask a question of, I don’t understand, I don’t get you versus demonstrating. You understand? What are you trying to understand? Are you trying to understand a sense of their reality more generally, which is a part of empathy, but it’s more demonstrating is what we focus on, but it’s seeking to understand, are you just trying to understand their reality more general? Are you trying to gather information, because that’s a part of your job and assess their situation. That’s a different curiosity. Are you focused on the problem and trying to problem solve with them? There’s a place for that. And motivational Interviewing we tend to jump to that pretty quick with the premature planning trap. but that’s different asking is different than telling. At least we got that down. That’s a different quality of curiosity. And then even different than that, that seems to come later for people. But the whole term of motivational Interviewing means to interview someone about their motivations and the quality of curiosity, to just be curious. Why do you do what you do? Or why would you even want to change to see something different? Or what does it matter if things change and why does that matter? And just the curiosity of motivation is one of those key things in motivational Interviewing that can get lost in the fray of all these acronyms and all these other things.

 John: And it’s so much to why I’m grateful to Casey talking about the physics of this, the mindset and the intentionality of this versus the technique components of it. Because if I’m not aware of where I am putting my curiosity. I’m not necessarily being as mindful as I could be to guide this conversation. And I am getting paid most of the time in the helper role to guide this conversation. So, it’s that quality of curiosity, spectrum that I was lit up to talk about with all this. And I have a lot of different examples we could get through, but I’m just wondering if that resonates or any thoughts that any of you have on any of that?

Casey:...]]> 0:22:06 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/10/17/landscape-of-motivational-interviewing/ 90511877 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=8472 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Mon, 17 Oct 2022 13:05:00 -0400 About This Episode

Welcome to today’s communication solution podcast. We love talking about motivational interviewing, and improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. Today we are talking about the larger picture of the landscape of motivational interviewing, some of the things that are going on in its world, and the future landscape of motivational interviewing. We will also be transitioning some team members. 

For those who are new to this podcast, the MICA is the motivational interviewing competency assessment.

• In this podcast we discuss:The larger picture and landscape of motivational interviewing
• The field of motivational interviewing has grown or spilled into
• Motivational interviewing is a method of communicating
• Cultural Bias
• Dr. William Miller and his book, “Lovingkindness: Realizing And Practicing Your True Self”
• Measurement and motivational interviewing
• The components of how language works
• Mindset 
• Responsibility and choice
• The Western medical perspective
• Dr. Theresa Moyers and her new book, “Effective Psychotherapy”
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us!

Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

Want to see the video podcast?- Join MI PLUS Join MI PLUS+ Transcript of Show – View Below

The landscape of Motivational Interviewing

Tammy: Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast today. We’ve got Casey Jackson on the line, John Gilbert, and I’m Tammy here at IFIOC. We love to talk communication. We love to talk motivational interviewing, and we love talking about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. Welcome to the conversation.

John: Hello everyone. And welcome back. We have some special podcasts here as we’re going to be talking about this larger picture here of the landscape of motivational interviewing and some of the things that are going on in the world of motivational interviewing. If you’re interested in that more generally, we also are going to be having a transition of some team members that you might be seeing if you’re seeing this, but you’ll be hearing here soon. So, I know Casey, you were going to give some words to that with Tammy and.

Casey: Well, mostly I’m crying internally cause I’m losing Tammy. She, and I’ve been buddies for years and years and years. Actually, Tammy was. Integral to me transitioning and doing some work in senior living which wouldn’t have happened with her role touch mark and just now makes me a little emotional, because there’s this chip little face who would run around high, high energy, usually that a little bag of M&Ms with peanuts in it. And I could get people to do almost anything. Like she was the biggest. Cheerleader not only for training but just for motivational interviewing, just so it’s actually a little hard for me to see her kill a little face right there. To know that we’re going to be transitioning and she’s going on to wonderful things with her family as it continues to grow, in her belly right now. Yeah. And the good news is we’re bringing on Danielle Cantin. Who’s just a. A force to be reckoned with. So just, it it’s an exciting transition. And so, we’re going to hear some of that transition over the next few podcasts as, as Tammy’s, you know moving on to, to other things. And Danielle’s jumping onto the I team. So, it’s exciting, exciting times and a little bit of grieving going on at the same time. so, anything either of you would like to jump in and say, Tammy

Tammy: no. Except I do want to make sure that we cover the actual topic of

Danielle: the podcast at some point

Tammy: I’d like, sorry, the name. So, people know what the name, what we’re focused

Danielle: on today.

John: Yeah. The landscape of motivational interviewing, for sure. Yeah. Yes.

Casey: Sounds good. And Danielle, any thoughts as you’re jumping on?

Danielle: Yes. I’m just so thrilled to be here. And what I think is really interesting is how you and Tammy connected is how we connected is in the senior living space. So, there’s something really interesting about what you’re bringing to the world with this work. And I, I just. Really interesting about the senior living piece and learning everything that you’re doing is really awesome. Tammy. You’ve been wonderful through this transition, so excited to, to pick up the torch that you’ve been carrying and keep moving it forward.

Casey: You know, and I think that’s, it’s, it makes so much sense for the topic for this podcast is about just the landscape of motivational interviewing and what fields, you know, has motivational interviewing kind of grown or spilled into. And, you know, for me, my, my background, most people know my background is in, you know, substance use treatment, chemical dependency, and mental health. Motivation one was born out of the, the addiction world. Dr. Miller, Dr. William Miller. It was his area of expertise as a clinician and as a psychologist, as a researcher and, and. But when data’s good and things are effective for behavior change, you know, word spreads and as research pours out and, and people say, hey, this is effective. Then it, you know, in short order it went from the chemical dependency world, you know, and with just the hand and glove with mental health world and as soon as the number started changing and outcomes improved, then you know, healthcare obviously was perking up and going, hey, we need to learn more about this. And then as soon as you say healthcare, then it’s just like, okay, Bing, Bing, Bing. You’ve got, you know physical therapy, occupational therapy, nutrition, you know, dieticians. It just starts to spread pretty rapidly. I, I think the most fascinating. Like jump gaps that have happened that I’ve been lucky enough to be involved in is, you know, when it started to, like, when I was asked to work in employment services or with corrections or law enforcement, and again, then moving to some of the corporate side in terms of senior living and things like that as well, too. So, it’s just, it’s fascinating. And I think. When I step back and I think, how does that happen? First thing I think is obviously data, you know, when people see data and see research and things are improving, we, people are going to

Casey: dig into that and say, hey, does it relate to us? Can we, can we get those outcomes? How does that happen? I know that’s what John’s fascination when he and I bumped into each other in the beginning was just looking at the data side of it. And wow. There’s a lot of promising practice. In the nutrition world that John works in this looks like a very upcoming promising practice. And hey, I’m fascinated with this, which is where we got so obsessed with fidelity. Like, okay, but we want to do it. Right. And I think that happens with seeing the data, but I’ll say the most profound thing. And I think this is what. Really lean on and take pride in, in IFIOC is that we really do see it as a method of communication. So, I think that still can get taught and I don’t think it’s wrong. But to think of it as a counseling technique. And I think that causes a stutter step. Into moving into other professions, I’m going, Hey, I’m not a therapist, I’m not a clinician. I don’t work people with addiction issues. My job isn’t to do interviewing, I mean, if there’s, if there’s a couple of one-liners, we hear all the time is my job isn’t to do interviewing or how do we motivate them?

Casey: You know, how can I get them motivated to take their medication or follow through on the doctor’s recommendations or stick with treatment? How do we make them do that? Using motivational interviewing? I think there’s so many misperceptions, but when you step back and think, how did it. You know, evolve and those tendrils just continue to reach out into other professions. I think when you break it down, it’s because people do become aware that I can be more mindful about how I communicate. And as soon as you think of that, then my brain goes to, well, if it’s about communication language, then you can see why it starts to spread into other countries and other languages as well too. And this is my obsession about talking about and learning about the human brain because the human brain is a cross-cultural thing. A human brain is a human brain and language and how it hits our ear and hits our brain. Is pretty profound. So that’s my blah, blah, blah. About kind of just some aspects of when I think of the landscape of motivational interviewing and, and kind of what fields is it in and, and how it’s kind of grown. But John, what are some of your, I mean, you you’ve been around this for over 10 years now, so, I mean, what are, what are some things that strike you as I’m rambling on?

John: No As you’re talking, it was going through my mind is this. Sense of communication is one thing, but how culturally relevant that communication usually is meaning it’s, it’s in a container of a culture. And so, as I’ve gotten more and more into motivational interviewing and just life in general, learning how biased by our culture we can be and how it’s been very interesting just to learn all the conscious and unconscious and implicit bias that we bring to the table. And trying to get more aware of that and how, if we’re going to influence someone, how are we doing that from our cultural bias? Right. ...]]> 0:35:27 false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/08/19/navigating-resistance/ 88706733 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=8490 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Fri, 19 Aug 2022 13:43:52 -0400 Navigating Resistance

In this podcast we discuss:

• What is your role
• Informed choice
• Empowerment vs. Power
• Fight, Flight or Freeze
• Culture
• Righting reflex
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us on apple podcasts or share this podcast, it would mean so much to us!

Tami Calais: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast. Here at IFIOC we love to talk communication, we love to talk motivational interviewing, and we love talking about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. Today, we’ve got Casey Jackson on the line, John Gilbert.

And I’m Tammy. Welcome to the conversation.

John Gilbert: Hello and welcome everyone. You are listening to another conversation with us at the team here. Today we have, uh, a topic. I was surprised we haven’t talked about fully yet, but it is gonna be navigating resistance. And so you might have this in a variety of different situations, personal professional, all sorts of different things.

And so we talk a lot about this in our intro to motivational interviewing course that will reference throughout. And there’s some other, uh, resources like MI minutes setting Casey [00:01:00] can speak to, that will point you towards afterwards, but for now, that’s what we’re gonna be kind of setting the tone with.

In terms of resistance, one thing that came to mind for me, Casey, is something that years ago you brought up of the whole rubber band analogy and kind of the physics 1 0 1 thing. So I think that could be a place to start if you are both open to that. But at some point I think that would be helpful just to get a sense of defining our terms a little bit, or what are we talking about instead of the maybe stigma that happens when you think.

Making the label that someone is being resistant. So I don’t know if you’d mind starting there.

Casey Jackson: Well, I, I think it’s interesting because if we kind of unwind the history a bit of this in the beginning, when I first was learning motivational interviewing and, and getting trained on it and then training on it, resistance was a term we used literally rolling with resistance and then it started falling out of favor.

 And the big shift was towards discord. And I understood the thinking behind it. Because what they were saying is [00:02:00] we don’t wanna label the individual as being resistant. We don’t wanna label the individuals being resistant. You know, what do we contribute to that? You know, so there’s discord, there’s tension between people.

And it was interesting because I had been training resistance as the energy between two things, because I I’m so a little freakish about semantics. Like I, I, I need to, my brain needs to know what it means. And so I’d researched and, and looked up, you know, the source of it had to. Physics, you know, when you’re looking at human physics or when you’re looking at, you know, just physics and science, that resistance is the energy between two things.

So that’s when I started using that analogy. Like if you pick up the rubber band, there’s no resistance in the rubber band, you know, it’s when we pull on it and it’s, and then I started talking about, you know, if I pump my fist together and smash my fist together, that’s resistance. What I’d say is that it takes two things.

So there is no such thing as a resistant individual, by definition, it is the energy between two things. And for me, that really helped my brain start to evolve of [00:03:00] understanding what causes resistance and what reduces resistance, which makes it easier to navigate resistance in dialogue. I think the thing that’s so interesting with different populations that I’ve worked with.

Is that there’s so many things we do to try to manipulate or control people to bring down their resistance, which just in inadvertently increases resistance. One of the things that I I know is such an interesting challenge, um, when I train law enforcement is one of the most common things they’ll say is, you know, oh, well maybe we could use motivationally after we get them cuffed and in the car.

And it’s like, oh my gosh, the amount of resistance you’ve generated that you’re gonna have to come over to overcome. That is gonna. A challenge. Um, another way to think about this, if you’re thinking from a kind of an evolving practice or promising practice is what if you eliminate the resistance, so you don’t have to use force or it doesn’t have to escalate, which is, you know, I mean, we’re talking about if there’s not health and safety, if there’s not a minute risk mm-hmm , but the majority of calls officers go [00:04:00] on, there’s not imminent risk.

You know, and so it’s just like, can we rethink about how do we eliminate that tension instead of creating massive amounts of resistance and then trying to undo it after the fact mm-hmm, just seem almost, I can see from that logical perspective, but it’s counterintuitive. Um, when you look at it from a, you know, a different model too, mm-hmm mm-hmm yeah.

John Gilbert: It’s, it’s interesting. When you start to. And helpful and, and useful. Uh, more importantly, when you start to put the responsibility, back into the lap of the practitioner contributing or not contributing and there’s, or is something you’ll say, um, at trainings that I’ve will use in trainings of, you know, with everything you say, uh, You either have the potential to increase or decrease that sense of between you and the other person stretching or pushing or something like that.

And that [00:05:00] mindfulness, there is something to be said about getting in the flow and a practice skill. So I don’t wanna take away from that for counselors therapists, people that are listening, that, that are in that zone, but there is something to be said about the ability to respond. There’s taking responsibility of resistance between you and something else, and it’s just a more powerful place to be.

And so it brings empowerment back to the officer, back to the counselor, back to the therapist, back to the social worker to recognize back to the child, back to the teacher. Yeah. I mean, you’re right. That’s exactly it. And well, and oh, go ahead.

Casey Jackson: Well, and, and the thing I think about too is you’re, you’re laying that as you’re talking, John.

What it comes down to is what is your role and what are you trying to accomplish? I mean, maybe people don’t wanna reduce resistance. Maybe they wanna increase resistance. Maybe they wanna rally people up. So I think this is also why, you know, we’re talking about how do you navigate resistance, but I also think is what is your end goal?

Or what is the, what’s your intention going into the [00:06:00] conversation, you know of, do you care if you’re generating resistance, if you’re pounding your fist on a table and you’re trying to make a change mm-hmm , um, these people think that, you know, generating that resistance, it gives you a dynamic tension to work with.

And so it just, it, it just really does come down to what is your ultimate intention in, in reducing that resistance? That thing I always brace against is when people think that when I can see or they talk about that, ultimately the mindset has some. Tone of manipulation to it. And that’s when I get a little itchy, in terms of, yeah, that’s, that’s a different mindset going into, trying to manipulate someone to almost necess like rub the alligators belly.

So they go to sleep kind of thing. Like if you’re doing that to manipulate them or, or entrance them, that’s a, that’s not what we’re talking about.

John Gilbert: Yeah. I’d like to bring Tammy in related to that with sales, because where, where my brain goes is very philosophical and I I’ll just throw out. Well, do Casey, to what you’re talking about.

 Do you believe more in the power of fear [00:07:00] or, uh, power of kind of that sort of thing, or do you believe more in the power of love and acceptance and that sort of a thing, and that will really shape, do I want to take this acceptance, motivational Interviewing spirited thing to see if the power of that works. You can always rely on the power of the confrontation, but some people so believe be it through evolutionary psychology or otherwise believe in the power of the, uh, For being more powerful, like we’re seeing with so many things in the world, right. That it’s not even going through their brain to be in the power of huh.

Versus Ugh. You know, and just that, but that underlying belief conscious or not is really gonna shape how you enter with that intention. I think that’s so powerful what you, you said there, but then there’s also this other thing of being mindful of. Now I’m going to use my skillset to get this person, to see what I want them to see by acting like I understand where they’re coming from and then kind of imbuing my stuff in there.

And that is definitely not [00:08:00] motivational interviewing, but I think there is a connotation of sales with that. So I was wondering Tammy, if, if you can speak to your experience in the world of business with empathy and what you kind of. Thought it was or what you were introduced to it and just, I don’t know any, any sort of thoughts you have on resistance in sales and, and anything you learned with that?

Tami Calais: Well, as far as navigating resistance goes, even in a sales role, I was lucky enough to believe in helping people i...]]> false https://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/powerpress/watermark_black-applepodcast_sizefinal-866.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/08/05/guns-violence-and-motivational-interviewing-part-2-with-guest-steve-wohl/ 88299371 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=8397 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Fri, 05 Aug 2022 15:19:33 -0400 Lieutenant Steve Wohl

• 25 years with the Spokane Police Department
• Training Director at the Spokane Police Academy
• BA from Eastern Washington University in Interdisciplinary Studies, minor in Communication and Psychology.
• Previously supervised the Major Crime (Robbery/Homicide/OIS) unit, Special Victims Unit, Internal Affairs, and Tactical Operations unit.
• Commander of the Spokane Independent Investigations Regional Response team (SIIR) investigating all critical incidents involving regional law enforcement officers.
• SWAT and Hostage Negotiation team Commander 2014-2019.

We loved having Steve on as a guest so much that we just had to schedule to have him back again to discuss even more about law enforcement and Motivational Interviewing.

In this podcast we discuss:

• Compliance vs. Behavior Change
• Lewis and Clark school shooting
• New Era of law enforcement
• Fight, flight or freeze
• And so much more!

Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast. Here at I F I O C we love to talk communication, we love to talk motivational interviewing, and we love talking about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. Today, we’ve got Casey Jackson on the line.

John Gilbert and I’m Tammy. Welcome to the conversation.

Hello everyone. Welcome back to the MI guys here. We have our team as usual. And this time again, we have our very special guest, Steve Wohl. I’m saying that right? I know sometimes I mess that up. Um, but anyhow, Steve, welcome back and thank you for coming back.

Steve Wohl: Oh, my, my pleasure. Glad to, join you guys again and, and, love the, the opportunity. So appreciate you guys having me on the team.

Casey Jackson: Yeah. You know, Steve, what I wanna dive in with this is, [00:01:00] you know, after we wrap last time, the first thing you said is, gosh, we didn’t even get into the active shooter side of this.

And, I think that is so predominant right now, unfortunately, um, you know, I just know you’ve had multiple experiences and I think even launching this, what I want to really look at and, and kind of lay the foundation for is walking down that path between compliance and behavior change. Because even as we tee this up and we talked about it quite a bit last time, but I just think, I think from my mind, it helps me from a social worker.

Really bridge that gap that we talked about last time between, you know, that the behavioral side of it, law enforcement side of it, community safety, you know, civilian safety, officer safety, like just, I think it’s just such a complex issue that people try to oversimplify. And if we’re gonna start from a simple place, I just wanna start from that place of kind of compliance versus behavior change and why law enforcement has to put on the paths that they have to just.

For, [00:02:00] for reasons that most of us don’t even comprehend. Um, and then the way that your brain continues to keep trying to expand, how do we make this as effective as possible with the best possible outcomes for everyone? So I just wanna start from there as we walk down this path, but I just wanna kinda set that tone for, for people listening as well, too, that this is just so wildly complex, and I don’t want to feel like it gets oversimplified.

So, but, so, so what were some of your thoughts as we were wrapping up and they, the things you were thinking, like, I just wish we could have had a chance to touch on this a bit.

Steve Wohl: Yeah. You know, I think with Motivational Interviewing Casey, you’re always looking for behavioral change and, looking for the way to get into people who are in crisis. With, active shooters, a lot of times we are called when, the violence is, is going on. And we have got to stop or neutralize that threat, and we don’t always get the opportunity to sit and talkwith the person in crisis to, hopefully end the situation, [00:03:00] the bad situation, in a way that would be beneficial to all involved.

Um, a lot of times we show up, after the fact, unfortunately, and not always do we get that opportunity? I had mentioned, in previous conversations with you guys, uh, about a shooting, a school shooting we had here in Spokane. Boy, it’s, it’s going on 20 years, probably 18 to 20 years ago at Lewis and Clark high school.

And so I was a part of a specialty team that, showed up to that, situation. And ultimately we ended up having the opportunity, to sit and engage and, and talk with, a young man who was going through some, some real crisis in his life. And I look back now and I think to myself, had, we had, your training, Casey, could we potentially, have altered or could we have, maybe got those, those hooks, that we needed to, help him, prior to him forcing, a, a shooting. He was, troubled and he, ended up forcing law [00:04:00] enforcement to, shoot him, um, which is, which is devastating for, for everybody involved.

 Not only him, but his family, but the law enforcement as well. Cuz that’s not the outcome that we look for. In a perfect world, we would, utilize the tools that, you have trained us with Casey and, and tools that we’ve, taken through different courses. And we would had a better outcome.

 Not always is that gonna happen? Right. But we’re always looking for that, especially now. Anytime we engage with somebody in a, a negotiation, or a, somebody that’s going through crisis, we’re looking to, end it, in a way that, is mutually beneficial for, for those involved and, and police.

 So I think that’s big is looking at, at how now Motivational Interviewing can change those active shooters where we have a chance to talk with them.

Casey Jackson: What was the scenario? How’d that play out? I mean, what was the, for as much as you can share about it, I mean, what, how did that situation play with that youth?

Like what had happened? Was there anybody else that was [00:05:00] harmed in that? Or how did that, how did the situation unfold?

Steve Wohl: Yeah. So he, going through, definitely mental health issues, and later, diagnosed mental health issues. He had taken a firearm, I believe, it belonged to his father, and had gone to Lewis and Clark high school in the morning.

 Ended up going into a, like a science wing and fired off, some rounds. Um, and kept some, some people in a, in a classroom for a time. They were eventually able to, escape. Police were called a fire alarm was pulled. We responded once we got the call that, um, it actually was an active shooter where we had, a young man with a, gun inside the school.

 And we were able to with, uh, security and everything, we were able to lock him down into one hallway of this, of this science lab. He ended up barricading the room. But after a time we had a couple negotiators from our team. Um, at the time who were able to get a dialogue with him, through a [00:06:00] doorway, he would, he would come and go.

 But he was, uh, definitely in, the pit of despair that day. He just kept wanting, to force and encounter as he wanted to take his life. So truly, I don’t, believe he was there to hurt other people, but wanted to force, a deadly encounter with law enforcement. And so we had an opportunity to, for an extended period of time to talk with him, face to face kind of down the hallway.

 And, he would, he would kind of go through those, times where he’d be up and then he’d come back down and we were able to, to kind of bring him back down, and have him a little bit of rational talk with him. And then he would get very irrational. Ultimately, uh, the negotiations broke down, unfortunately.

And he ended up, pointing a weapon at officers, to start that, I guess, uh, suicide attempt. He ended up, being shot and, we had medics on our team, on our SWAT team at the time, uh, who, so we were, we were to him able to clear everything out, um, very, very [00:07:00] short amount of time.

And we were actually able to, save his life. And in the end, he ended up getting some help that he needed. And we actually built a pretty good relationship with him. To the point where he became a part of our, talk that, that our two negotiators did around the nation where wow, we would go in and talk with and come, came back.

 And I’ve met with him since that opportunity or since that time. And, uh, it’s kind of led to a, an opportunity for us to, talk with people and to talk about mental health and about, uh, these situations. And he was, able to, move past that very, that very sad encounter and, and is now doing so much better.

Casey Jackson: You know, it’s so easy me for, to get caught up in the, just the, the story of that, the narrative of it.

And then there’s a moment in time. I cuz my, my brain never stops. I think when you were relaying that Steve, the, the part that hit me, was, and you and I have talked about this, we talked about [00:08:00] in the last podcast as well too, is that, that vacillation between trying to get engagement, relationship based or trying to work with their ambivalence internally, you know, there’s that.

And I think that’s just, I think that’s where we’re starting to find that where it’s gonna be the intersection between some of the expertise in law enforcement and negotiations and expertise in communication from like a Motivational Interviewing perspective, looking at the ambivalence. But what struck me when you’re talking about it.

I just started thinking about different body cam footage that I’ve looked at, and the difference between active shooters that are looking for suicide by cop and active shooters that are, actively like on the verge of taking their own life with ...]]> false https://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/powerpress/watermark_black-applepodcast_sizefinal-866.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/07/24/ethical-influence-and-behavior-change-with-guest-josh/ 87936075 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=8342 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Sun, 24 Jul 2022 16:55:15 -0400 Ethical influence and behavior change with guest Josh from Valuegraphics

Josh is the VP of The Valuegraphics Research Company. Helping global brands like PayPal, lululemon, and Genesys to increase their ROI, reduce their risk and improve ESG by using a research-backed values approach.

By conducting custom research, The Valuegraphics Research Company is able to provide a unique experience for each of its clients, that uses data to remove the guesswork from their marketing and messaging.

The demographic models that marketers have used for centuries are no longer effective because people don’t fit the demographic stereotypes of days gone by. Around the world, companies are looking for an alternative that helps them find the intersection between profit and purpose and Valuegraphics is that answer.

This podcast episode is a must listen! Josh joins us from Value graphics to share his experience on values and the core values found in the U.S. and Canada and around the world, as well as discuss ethical influence.

In this podcast we discuss:

• Pre-frontal cortex and how it relates to our values
• Explaining demographics, psychographics and valuegraphics
• Values theory
• Competing values
• Sales, manipulation and connecting people’s values
• Recruitment, culture change and employee retention
• Top 10 values in the whole world

If you loved this episode, please rate it on apple podcasts and subscribe to our podcast for more great podcasts!

Join MI PLUS!

Want a transcript? See below!

[00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast. Here at I F I O C we love to talk communication. We love to talk motivational interviewing, and we love talking about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve today. We’ve got Casey Jackson on the line. John Gilbert and I’m Tammy.

John Gilbert: Welcome to the conversation. Hello again, everyone. We have a guest today that is going to get into something that if anyone has listened to our podcast on values, focus, mountain, all that good stuff. This will be familiar, but. You will also expand your mind in some really cool ways. I’ve got to hear our guest on various podcasts out there.

I suggest listening to his work. He has a book as well. He can tell us all about himself. It’s Joshua Dittmar and he, is [00:01:00] gonna tell us about value graphics and what that all means and how we can relate Motivational Interviewing to that and how he’s doing a lot of massive change at a large level. He’s the VP of value graphics research company, and he’s helping global brands be it PayPal, Lulu Laman Genesis their he’s using these value graphics to help with increasing.

ROI, reducing their risk and improve some of their outcomes with a researched, backed values based approach. So we’re gonna talk about that, how to do that with values and get into some aspects of how do we think about ethics in relation to discovering people’s values, how we’re influencing them.

And just some of the, some of the things around that from an Motivational Interviewing perspective, as well as Josh. Your perspective as well, more generally from everything you’ve learned. So anyhow, welcome Josh. And if you wouldn’t mind, I know you have some information you were thinking of sharing about what does this even mean with value graphics and how could people get attuned to [00:02:00] it?

Josh Dittmar: Amazing, good day guys. Thanks for having me on. And yeah, really looking forward to having a chat about values and a values driven approach with people who are already living and breathing this stuff. It’s always exciting to talk to like-minded folks. Yeah, this this amazing database that has originally been created by our founder, David Allison, and a team of researchers out of New Zealand has really given us some powerful tools to not just change businesses, but also, you know, change the world potentially and, you know, help us change the way that we look at each other and see each other from, a personal perspective through our values. And instead of just looking and, you know, taking in the world through a, with demographic stereotypes, so lots of fun on the business and profit side, but also being able to make a, you know, social impact as well is, is really helpful. So I’ll start off with a, a little bit of a story which will help to provide some context around this, you know, massive database that we have.

We’re accurate in 180, out of 185 countries. There’s over 750,000 survey responses that we’ve [00:03:00] collected. All anonymously. And we have 152 different languages that we’re, you know, able to translate into. And we’re super, super accurate, more accurate that you need for a PhD at any university in the world.

So for all the stats geeks out there like me, that’s We’re accurate to 3.5% with a 95% level of confidence. So that’s just super, super accurate with our research and but this, this whole idea was born out of the thought that every organization on the planet. Wants to engage and motivate a group of people, whether it’s, you know, us on this podcast, we wanna get people to come onto the podcast, whether you’re a Toyota wanting to sell people, cars, whether you’re a, you know, religious organization, you want donations.

Every organization wants to get a group of people to do a particular thing. And so, you know, we are all walking around with the questioquestion our heads, how do we get people to do things? How do we get people to do what we want to buy our products to, you know, come to our shows, come to our events, listen to our podcasts.

We always start off this, [00:04:00] this introduction with a story about three friends in an alley at midnight. So if you can imagine Covid’s ending, we haven’t seen our friends for a while. I’m from Australia, living in Canada. You can imagine if I get to see a bunch of Australians come over to Vancouver, Canada.

We’re gonna go out and we’re gonna have a good time. And we’re at the bar. And, you know, we haven’t seen each other for a long time. There’s a lot of, you know, punching in the shoulders, slapping each other, just really enjoying each other’s company. And it gets to about one or 2:00 AM and we’re like, okay, maybe it’s time we, we take the, you know, take the party elsewhere. The bar’s closing down and we’re gonna walk back to our apartment and you know, it’s you and, and you and two other friends and you start to walk back and you come across a dark ally. And the first person who’s driven by adventure sees this alley and they think, wow, cool.

Okay, let’s go down this alley. Come on guys. Like, I love you. This will be lots of fun. It’ll be a shortcut. We’ll be able to get there quicker. Super exciting. Second friend, friend, number two, who’s driven by safety is like, this is the worst idea ever. I love you [00:05:00] guys. We’re not going down his alley no matter what, that’s not happening.

Like I love you. Let’s go back to the bar, get an Uber. . Yeah,

we’re gonna go back to the bar. Let’s call an Uber. Like let’s go back to the apartment safely. That’s all it matters. Friend. Number three, who’s driven by friendship is like, guys, I don’t care what happens down the alley, back to the, you know, back to the bar, whatever happens as long as I’m with you guys.

I love you. I’m cool with whatever happens. So there’s three different people. We’re three different responses in an instant. It’s an instinctual response. It’s not like they had to sit their own process. Am I 26 to 35? Am I 35 to 46? Like, you know, you know, the numbers, you know, the, the demographic profiling that we have around everything, nobody sits there and goes am I a six foot, two white male?

Does that mean that’s okay for me to walk down this D dark alley like that? No, we have an instinctual reaction and the instinctual reaction comes from our values. Our values, determine everything we do. [00:06:00] And, you know, the, the way that we market and message and talk to people is through this demographic lens.

And it just, it doesn’t really make sense. It’s a little bit, it’s, it’s cracked, it’s broken, you know, it used to work for us in the past when we had to have certain, you know, back in the day, it was important that you fit at a certain role in society and you did a certain thing, but now the world’s changed, you know?

Institutions are still kind of back in this, this olden day way of looking at things, but people have changed, you know, we can go out and you can literally learn anything off your phone. You can become anything that you want, which is fantastic. And it’s a part of, you know, we’ve, we’ve really gotta start talking to people through this value based lens.

And so thankfully there’s people out there who, you know, figured this out way before we did, who are a lot smarter than we are. If you think of the science of neuroscience, you think of the prefrontal cortex of your brain. It’s like the CEO of your brain. And it has this filter, which decides, which decides what feels good and what feels bad.

 I move towards things that feel good. I move away from things that feel bad [00:07:00] and that filter is your values. If we look at things from a psychological perspective, which it sounds like where some of your question comes from an individual basis, it saying, okay, if I have a person. And I can understand their values.

I can, you know, maybe do a, my Briggs test or, you know, something like that, the engram, or all sorts of there’s all sorts of different ways that you can do it. And you lie on the couch and they’re understanding your...]]> false http://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/IFIOC-LOGO.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/07/08/guns-violence-and-motivational-interviewing-with-guest-steve-wohl/ 87471404 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=8269 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Fri, 08 Jul 2022 15:05:38 -0400 This is part 1 of a 2 part podcast with guest Lieutenant Steve Wohl from the Spokane Police Department.

Lieutenant Steve Wohl

• 25 years with the Spokane Police Department
• Training Director at the Spokane Police Academy
• BA from Eastern Washington University in Interdisciplinary Studies, minor in Communication and Psychology.
• Previously supervised the Major Crime (Robbery/Homicide/OIS) unit, Special Victims Unit, Internal Affairs, and Tactical Operations unit.
• Commander of the Spokane Independent Investigations Regional Response team (SIIR) investigating all critical incidents involving regional law enforcement officers.
• SWAT and Hostage Negotiation team Commander 2014-2019.

We loved having Steve on as a guest so much that we just had to schedule to have him back again to discuss even more about law enforcement and Motivational Interviewing.

In this podcast we discuss:

• Real life situations of law enforcement, behavior change, engagement and Motivational Interviewing
• The law enforcement brain in microseconds
• Hostage Negotiations
• When does Motivational Interviewing work and not work
• Compliance vs. behavior change
• And so much more!

You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us on apple podcasts or share this podcast, it would mean so much to us!

Diana and Michelle are from our public Facebook group “Motivational Interviewing Everyday” where we share tips, create discussions and talk about Motivational Interviewing in the real world.

In this Podcast we discuss:

• How self disclosure impacts communication from a Motivational Interviewing lens
• Cultural norms
• Relating and self disclosure
• And so much more!

Wow this podcast is full of great information about using Motivational Interviewing with groups or in a group setting. This question came from one of you, our listeners! Kati works in a school setting and was curious how Motivational Interviewing could be used in groups.

In this Podcast we discuss:

• How to use Motivational Interviewing in groups
• Tips: don’t fall into the expert trap, get engagement first, EPE (Elicit, Provide, Elicit)
• The spirit of Motivational Interviewing and whats your intention
• Refocusing groups
• And so much more!

[00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast. Here at IFIOC, we love to talk communication. We love to talk motivational interviewing, and we love talking about improving outcomes for individuals organizations and the communities that they serve. Today, we’ve got Casey Jackson on the line, John Gilbert, and I’m Tammy.

Welcome to the conversation.

John Gilbert: Hello everyone. And welcome to another conversation with us here at the communication solution. You know, each one of us from our intro and we today have a really interesting topic that is going to come from a listener that we really appreciate Katie.

 If you wouldn’t mind, Tammy just orienting us to what Katie had asked us, and then we can go from there with what, to a respond to.

Tami Calais: Yes. Sounds good. So Katie actually wrote [00:01:00] in the question she was asking about, can you use Motivational Interviewing as a tool for group communication?

She said that her background is in behavior interventions in a public school setting, and she would often end up working with students in small groups. She’s done some reading on synergistic change, talk in a group setting, but I’d love to know if IFIOC has any more information on it. So that is our conversation today, Motivational Interviewing in group settings.

Casey Jackson: So I can tell you for me, this is a question that has kind of percolated at times from the beginning. Ever since I started training it, not a common question, but it, it will surface fairly often. And kind of the two names the forefront of Motivational Interviewing and groups is Chris Wagner and Karen Ingersoll who wrote a book on Motivational Interviewing and groups.

And John was talking about, there’s a coding tool that [00:02:00] Johnny can reference as well to talk about a bit too, but prior to even knowing the things that had been written about Motivational Interviewing in groups is I was thinking about how, how I was using motivational interviewing in group therapy sessions in family therapy.

 What I realized in explaining to people is that first of all, you need to really be pretty skilled at Motivational Interviewing individually, because there is a complete different level of complexity that I found in using it in a group setting. The way I started to look at this was like, I remember getting called in asking to work with this group of Youth that were justice involved.

And they said, we know we wanted to learn how to use Motivational Interviewing can use Motivational Interviewing with these guys in the group and all these concepts. And so what I was talking to them about is the way that I think of a way to look at Motivational Interviewing, in groups is if you treat the group as a brain with all these little brain cells in it, and there’s going to be ambivalence inside that brain.

And so it’s not like you’re talking to them [00:03:00] in mass. I mean, there’s still this level of engagement, but you have a sense of how the majority of them are feeling and that the majority, and probably have mixed feelings about being in that group, especially if it’s a BI classroom or that, you know, a small group from a behavioral classroom.

You can think there’s part of it. That’s just like, they don’t want to be separated out. They don’t want to feel that way. They also don’t want to get the negative attention in classrooms, you know? So there’s some basic empathy. When you’re thinking about articulating a reflection and you’re thinking about talking to it as if it’s one brain.

The way that I would explain the way I would use it is saying like, this is perfect with both of you, you know, in the podcast with me of saying, you know, Tammy, when you first started, this was something you were completely opposed to. You thought this was a waste of your time and you thought I just don’t even want to be here.

You’d sit in the corner, had no intention of changing. And basically that’s what John’s behavior is right now. And, and I can then turn over and say, you know, John, that’s kind of the way you are now. You think this is a bunch of BS. [00:04:00] You don’t even want to be here, Tammy. There was something about you. What shifted for you?

Because for the most part, this felt like such a waste of your time. What, what changed for you? And it’s almost like you’re doing a double-sided reflection of one brain, but you’re doing it in the group because they’ve had similar behaviors or similar perspective or similar kind of reaction. So I know that I’m going to get resistance and sustained talk from John.

And I know there’s a probability. I’ll get sustain talk one more change, talk from Tammy. And so you can almost use that in a group dynamic because you’re gonna see that ambivalence in a group. If it’s a group that’s fully functioning on track, no resistance, no ambivalence. You wouldn’t be using Motivational Interviewing as a tool or a method of communication anyway, to be what’s the point of the group, unless it’s a process group, which means there’s, points of contention or there’s going to be ambivalence that, that comes up. In those group where there’s such a good respect for boundaries and people are there to learn and listen, and it’s kind of this improvement group perspective. It’s much easier than to grasp it from [00:05:00] that.

Tami Calais: So what you’re saying is like in this group setting, whether it’s two people, five people, 10 people.

However many people, if you can find a couple of different sides of the ambivalence within that group, that’s what you can help reflect in the double-sided reflection to bring out how most people are feeling.

Casey Jackson: Yeah. And, and, and what you’ll see, I, John, I think you were around when I used to do this with Washington state divisional rehab with their orientation, because they just had a struggle with orientation.

They said, you know, people wait till the end. And then they ask all these questions and they end up leaving the group after sitting there for two hours, just angry and upset because they shouldn’t even have sat through the two hours. And I said, if, you know why at least 60 or 70% of the people are in there.

And you know, that there’s a portion of them that don’t even believe that if they knew what this was about, they would opt out. You can start, you can either do that from an educational perspective, but so many people will hear your [00:06:00] instruction, or let me explain what this group is about and think it doesn’t necessarily relate to them until they get asked their question.

So it’s like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know those are the rules. I know that that’s what it’s for, but I need to ask a specific question, but it’s an orientation. So what I would say is start with high empathy of going, you know, a lot of people, this feels very odd being in a state agency where, you know, especially if you’re looking for public assistance, some you’re comfortable with that.

And so we were very uncomfortable with this. Somebody who had a disability from birth. And so you have a newly acquired disability And some people are here just because they heard that DVR would just pay for college. Like if you just showed up and you had a disability, they just they’d pay your tuition.

So for those of you that have a disability are looking at long-term employment, This is something that works really well. There’s some people that just show up and think, Hey, if I show up, they’re going to give me a job. And that’s an employment agency. That’s not DVR. So a lot of people show up for orientation and that’s how they feel.

And they get really frustrated thinking, my God, I just came in for a job and I’ve been here for six months and I’m still not working. And they get really, really frustrated. You know, some of you are here [00:07:00] for different reasons. And they said when they started using more of that narrative, that felt like everybody’s being talked to, like there was an empathetic aspect to it.

There’s people that would get up during orientation. ’cause, it was just like, oh yeah, that’s what I was looking for. That’s not what this is about. And they just get to leave and not wait for two hours and then be really angry about, well, I heard and you said, and they said so it would clean some of that up so that I wouldn’t say that that’s Motivational Interviewing in groups, but there is that thing about if you know, your population like a BI classroom, you know what some of the feelings are, you know, what some of the experiences are coming in there.

And so when you float those out there, And say it, you could hear a student say, yeah, it feels like all the teachers are against me because you lead off by saying no there’s days. You feel like all the teachers are against you and there’s days that it feels like the students are against you. And that gets really frustrating.

But then there’s days that it’s just like, I want to go to school. I want to learn, but it feels...]]> false https://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/powerpress/watermark_black-applepodcast_sizefinal-866.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/05/20/infusing-motivational-interviewing-into-healthcare-systems-with-guest-dr-amy-burns/ 85687686 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=8010 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Fri, 20 May 2022 14:47:08 -0400 Motivational Interviewing and Healthcare with Amy Burns

Wow this podcast is full of great information about operationalizing Motivational Interviewing in a healthcare setting. Whether you work in healthcare, are in leadership in the Healthcare industry or just love Motivational Interviewing, you will love this podcast! Guest Amy shares all about her experience helping her organization and culture shift to Motivational Interviewing.

In this Podcast we discuss:

• Operationalizing Motivational Interviewing
• Changing Culture
• Fidelity of Motivational Interviewing
• Champions of change and Motivational Interviewing
• Coding training (Motivational Interviewing Competency Assessment-MICA)
• Train the trainer program
• And so much more!

[00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast. Here at IFIOC, we love to talk communication. We love to talk motivational interviewing, and we love talking about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. Today, we’ve got Casey Jackson. John Gilbert and I’m Tammy.

Welcome to the conversation.

John Gilbert: Welcome back everyone. We are back here for another podcast. Then we have another very special guest. That’s also a director here, uh, and in my eyes quite a big wig. Her name is Dr. Amy Burns. And Amy, if you wouldn’t mind for getting us started, just give us a little bit of sense of your role and anything else you’d like to share of course, but particularly your role.

And then [00:01:00] from there, we can get into how you’ve applied, Motivational Interviewing, your thoughts on it and how you’ve applied it in your world.

Amy Burns: Yeah, sure. Well, first off, I’m really, um, happy to be here this morning, talking about one of my favorite topics It’s very exciting, with the “MI” Motivational Interviewing guys. Um, so, um, I am an associate program director for a psychiatry residency in Spokane Washington.

And, um, I, and my other role that I kind of created for myself, because I felt like it was important and is as the lead for motivational interviewing training for graduate medical education for all of the residency’s Spokane wide. Um, yeah, so, the basically, I first got into motivational interviewing, um, teaching Medical students that were, on a [00:02:00] psych clerkship.

And, then it kind of grew from there. In part, because of all the training that I got at IFIOC, that kind of helped me give me the confidence to be able to, to expand what I learned and teach it to other physicians.

Casey Jackson: Well, and I’ve got to dive in because just give Tammy and John context as well too, when Amy and I connected, I mean, there was multiple things that, that kind of grew from that one was just fascinating.

Because I’d done training for physicians before. And it really was a lot of looking at it at the time, actually looking at pagers and, and waiting to get out of the training and being respectful. But Amy was just questions, questions, questions, questions, questions, because she had such a phenomenal foundation of motivational interviewing.

And since we were teaching at less from kind of the acronym side and more of the fidelity. Kind of measurement side. It just, it was just like this kind of perfect meeting of the minds. And, [00:03:00] and for me, the thing that just was, just overwhelming was when, um, she had reached out and wanted to look at training, having actually having her instructors, physician instructors go through Motivational Interviewing training to think about how to train Motivational Interviewing in their classes, not just an Motivational Interviewing class, because that’s pretty traditional..

Like they have them go through a section on motivational interviewing. And that was kind of about where they were at. And Amy was lead in that, but in us and you know what, we need to infuse this in every, all of our coursework. Like this needs to be a foundation of how people conceptualize patient care.

Um, instead of, oh, they need to go through an Motivational Interviewing class. That’s, that’s where I was introduced to Amy and where we had some conversations and got to do a little bit of work together and, and with some of the, the team that she works with. So that gives you two context about just kind of just that’s.

That’s why I thought, oh, it’d be so fascinating if we get Amy to come on and talk about her perspective with this.

Tami Calais: Wow. Very forward-thinking to Amy.

Amy Burns: Oh [00:04:00] yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, one of the things that, That really influenced the way that I think is when I think about, life expectancy, disparity and behavior changes, health behaviors and how, these health behaviors are there things that are leading to life expectancy changes in our patients, in the medical field and, And a lot of reasons, a lot of ways motivational interviewing could, can result in behavior changes as significant as medications that we prescribe and, um, making sure that we can, have the skills and implement these type.

This form of treatment is as important. Pharmacology is for physicians,

um, because it can result in that kind of behavior change. And so, that was kind of the inspiration behind wanting to make our physicians that we trained really, really good. And the other thing that I think was [00:05:00] part of our thinking here in the Spokane graduate medical education was around, the, the idea that we pride ourselves on practicing evidence-based medicine.

 And evidence the evidence base for teaching motivational interviewing, um, really demonstrates that one workshop is not enough to change clinician and client behavior, and that you really have to have the coaching and. Feedback and coding, if you really want to get your patients to change. And so without those things, um, the learners may think they’ve got it and may really like it.

They think that they’re doing it, but when you actually code them, maybe not so much, not so much. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s what, um, really inspired our teams to think about. [00:06:00] Um, less about, uh, the medical knowledge acquisition of like the acronyms and the, the theory behind motivational interviewing and focus more of our energy on skill acquisition and attitude, which attitude towards employing it attitude towards what is, what does this mean?

Um, valuing it’s important than their practice.

Casey Jackson: You know, and it was interesting timing as well, too, because we were working on the Motivational Interviewing Competency Assessment and, um, and some of your folks went through a Motivational Interviewing Competency Assessment training right in the early stages of us while we were developing it. And when we finally first published the very first version of it, I know we’re at version 3.2 now, but that first version, literally your, your folks were some of the first ones to get exposed to that.

Fidelity training. Um, when we’re, when we’re working on the motivational and competency assessment and got a little bit of feedback on that as well, too, in the process of working on it, which was, [00:07:00] it was exciting for us. And I think it was a fun kind of partnership right there in the beginning.

Amy Burns: Oh yeah.

Yeah. That was amazing. We had, we were able to send, , faculty from three or maybe four different residency programs. So internal medicine, hospitalists and family medicine, outpatient docs, and psychiatrists, we all came together. The faculty. Um, learned how to use the Motivational Interviewing Competency Assessment to code. And then we quickly turned that around and implemented it before everybody forgot it and got out of it.

That was really critical because then you can lose your confidence really quickly if you don’t start practicing it immediately.

Casey Jackson: Well, and I need to ask you this Amy, because you know, I’ve, I said it before, but I’m curious. I mean, motivational Interviewing is not new. It’s been around since 1984. It’s been, you know, swirling around the medical field for years.

And I know it’s implemented at a much larger level than it was, you know, [00:08:00] in the beginning, but it was, I guess, in my experience in the “MI” Motivational Interviewing circles that I run into, you know, and, and get exposure to nationally and internationally. In the states, it’s like pockets of, of programs that see value in it.

But mostly it’s just kind of this brief exposure, because there are so many things we need to get residents through. And it just like, it’s like dust in the corner, um, is the way I’ve always kind of perceived motivational interviewing. And when I met you, you were one of the first people I’d met in the medical field.

That was like, guys, we need to really, really, really pay attention to this. Like, this is, this is significant. Why did your brain. Grab onto why did you gravitate towards motivational Intervieiwng in the way that you did and you’ve stuck? Not only do you stuck with it, you continue to be completely intrigued with it.

Amy Burns: Yeah. It’s really hard to know, like why well, parts of it maybe have to do with just that. I really felt like it was a good fit for my temperament and my personal ethos about how I like to [00:09:00] respect my patients and, honor their. Autonomy and, where they’re coming from and what they want to do.

And I really experienced it as a way for me to practice medicine with less burnout. I felt less responsible for the, the patients outcomes and. While simultaneously making a bigger impact by practicing motivational interview...]]> false https://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/powerpress/watermark_black-applepodcast_sizefinal-866.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/05/06/insecurity-and-building-confidence-with-guest-matthias/ 84467364 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=7907 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Fri, 06 May 2022 16:05:43 -0400 Insecurity and building Confidence with guest Matthias J. Barker.

Join us as we really plunge into a deep discussion about insecurity and building confidence! Guest Matthias J. Barker joins us sharing his expertise in trauma. This rich conversation is well worth a listen as our conversation navigates the challenges with insecurity as well as how can we restore confidence?

In this podcast we discuss:

• Labels and false summits
• Anxiety
• Fight or Flight
• Values
• Blame
• Depression
• Shame, guilt and personal responsibility
• Control

About our guest Matthias: Matthias Barker has a Master’s Degree in Clinical Mental Health Counseling and has been formally trained for treating complex trauma, anxiety, and marital issues. He treats a large variety of mental disorders and difficult life circumstances in his clinical practice based in Spokane, Washington. Matthias is the author of two e-books, On Grief and On Avoiding Burnout. In addition, he has released three public workshops focusing on Anxiety, Trauma, and a Couples Workshop.

Tami: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast. Here at IFIOC, we love to talk communication. We love to talk motivational interviewing, and we love talking about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve today. We’ve got Casey Jackson on the line.

John Gilbert and I’m Tammy. Welcome to the conversation.

John Gilbert: Hello. Again, everyone. We have yet another guest on our IFIOC podcast today. This is a wonderful human being that I’ve just met. And I’m really looking forward to this conversation because he has some particular questions in mind. Um, his name is Mathias Barker and he will share his contact info and he is quite the.

Instagrammer, among many other things out there with his own podcasts that Casey was on. And so, [00:01:00] we will make sure you get some sort of direction or link to that in our notes. We just want to, as you said, play around with some thoughts today, uh, particularly with your expertise in, trauma and some different projects you’re working on.

So first I just want to say welcome. And, uh, what would you like to talk about today?

Matthias Barker: Thank you. It’s an honor to be here. Yeah, I, I encounter Casey at one of his workshops back when I was in my masters program. And so I’ve kind of been, um, continually gleaning wisdom from afar. And so anytime I get to be in a room with Casey, I just, I just try to get him talking and steal all the secrets.

So that’s all I’ve tried to do, but I’m happy to be here. It’s a generous, yeah. Title of the. Trauma expert title. I, I think I’m learning just the same as everyone else. It’s uh, most of my clientele is in complex trauma and in working particularly with sexual trauma, that’s where I’ve done most of my training.

And so that’s where a lot of. Um, yeah, a lot of my reading, a lot of my supervision, a lot of my mentorship has been in that [00:02:00] world. So yeah. It’s, it’s an honor to get to hang out. Yeah. I, you know, right before we started recording, I just kinda threw out the idea. I’m like, you know, it would be interesting to discuss, cause I have some thoughts front of mind, but I’d love to get both of your views on it is, is just the dynamic of insecurity as it relates to trauma.

And, um, you know, so I’m on social media. I, I make a lot of like Instagram and Tik TOK videos. I have a popular podcast. And so I’m kind of like almost in this like pop psychology field, even though maybe I spend most of my time reading. I don’t know. The academic journals and the literature on different interventions.

So it’s confusing. Cause people are like, well, what psychology books would you recommend? And I’m like, you wouldn’t like any of this stuff, I’m reading it. Like, I don’t know. All the stuff I’ve read is like out a way in the weeds. And um, but, but one question I constantly is like, do you have any book recommendations on confidence?

How it can increase my confidence. And, and while that’s like a very invoked topic in like the pop psychology world, um, or in like, I dunno the self-help [00:03:00] world. It’s it’s something that isn’t necessarily zeroed in on, in the trauma literature. Maybe it is maybe just in the reading that I’ve done. It’s we conceptualize it perhaps a little bit differently because when we think about self-criticism, we think about like the wounds that are underneath self-critic.

When you think about, um, you know, insecurity or me not feeling confident, you know, perhaps in an Motivational Interviewing lens, like maybe this is, this is my theory, confirm or deny this and maybe expand on it as like, through the Motivational Interviewing lens, it would be, you know, looked at through the lens of ambivalence. There’s a part of me that wants to be able to feel really secure and safe and pursuing this thing that matters to me.

But there’s a part of me that has this deep fear that it’s going to end in catastrophe, or I’m not really going to put myself out there. I’m going to be vulnerable and it’s not going to work out. And, and so that’s, that’s more the lens, like when I think of how do I conceptualize insecurity in relation to trauma, and then what would be the prescription or what would be perhaps like the arc of boosting one’s confidence thats, I guess that’s [00:04:00] the domain that I’ve been thinking about a lot lately, trying to relate some of my training more in like the theoretical world to this question that’s kind of on the front of everyone’s minds in the pop world of how do I boost my confidence? So what comes to mind for you guys? When that question is….

Casey Jackson: I got to tell you.

There’s multiple things to go through my brain with this. And I like how you keep things so simple. Uh, let’s keep it as simple and as tight as we possibly can. Let’s not throw 15 different angles in at one time. I mean, this is what I think is why you and I love what we do. It’s just, it’s just, it’s never ending.

Cause it’s so fascinating. There’s two things that struck me when I first, my brain was starting to, you know, as you talk and I’m trying to, you know, look through the Motivational Interviewing lens at this. I think at the importance confidence ruler, I mean, something so simple, so basic, not exclusive to motivational interviewing and, and I was starting to deconstruct it as you talked from when we get into building a plan, use the importance, confidence, ruler, that the thing that we know with that when we use, you know, [00:05:00] how important is it to you?

How confident are you in getting there? Importance tends to almost always be high confidence tends to always be low.. Unless you run into like personality disorder, things like that, where it can be inverted, but mostly what you see is people it’s really important for me to do these things, but my confidence is low and in a very so specific and so simple way, it’s just like, well, what would take you from that four to just a four and a half in your confidence and to help people go from this overwhelming thing to a smaller step, but that doesn’t get to the depth of what we’re talking about with the kind of confidence and insecurity that you’re talking about.

And what struck me, especially when you’re talking about pop psychology is I think because we are so immersed 24/ 7/365 and other people’s realities, how can you not be anything but insecure? Um, and, and for me, what I equate to is when I developed the focus mountain, just knowing that there’s almost an infinite number of trees we can get lost in and never see the top of the mountain, because we’re so lost. And I [00:06:00] always use that kind of Mount Rainier perspective that, you know, everything we’re talking about with the security and, and looks and productivity and intelligence and all these things where we are comparing ourselves or the self doubt or the insecurity or the trauma we’ve experienced.

Gets us further and further lost in, you know, what am I supposed to be? Who am I supposed to be? And then I look over there and there’s a tree over there, and that’s how they look on social media or that’s what that’s supposed to be going on there. And John used to talk about, you know, the, the Buddhist perspective that, you know, that whole thing of that jealousy is kind of the stealer of joy is, you know, we want other people’s things, then we just feel more and more insecure.

And for me, where it starts from, and I was thinking about this with the insecurity and with trauma. It is shocking to me. You can take the most insecure person, but the more they start to talk about what their core values are, you start to see some of that restorative process happen. Hmm, because it’s not about what they look like or what they’re supposed to be doing or what their degree is or what their job is, or how much money [00:07:00] do they have, what car do they drive?

It’s who are you like, who do you know yourself to be? If everybody’s gonna strip everything away from you, who do you know yourself to be? And you know, this Matthias people we talk to, they will say, I know I’m a good person. Yeah. Um, some people doubt that at times, but, but they’ll get done these basic things.

If I know I’m. And, and, and then the way they start to talk about that, you can see, they’re not even convincing themselves. They’re kind of revisiting or they’re refining themselves as far as what, what makes me tick? I just think our culture, our, especially our mainstream American culture, we are distracted from that 24 7 365.

I just, especially with social media, it just is, it’s what everybody else is doin...]]> false https://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/powerpress/watermark_black-applepodcast_sizefinal-866.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/04/19/compassion-fatigue-and-motivational-interviewing-with-guest-sarah/ 84467363 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=7826 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Tue, 19 Apr 2022 17:35:31 -0400 This fantastic podcast is brought to you by one of your fellow listeners! Sarah joins us because she sent in a question about Compassion Fatigue and Motivational Interviewing. We dive deep into answering this question for her and all of you!

We discuss:

• Where Compassion Fatigue comes from
• Being “other” centered
• Accurate Empathy
• Healthy Boundaries
• Sympathy, Empathy and Compassion-what’s the difference
• and much more!

Tami Calais: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the Communication Solution podcast. Here at IFIOC, we love to talk communication. We love to talk motivational interviewing, and we love talking about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. Today, we’ve got Casey Jackson on the line, John Gilbert, and I’m Tammy.

Welcome to the conversation.

John Gilbert: Hello everyone. Welcome to another podcast with the IFIOC team and we have a guest today. Sarah Cameron, if I’m saying it correctly, oh gosh, I thought when I, I thought that was what it would be, but then when I read it up top, I was like, I’m going to try it. Anyhow. Last year you spent in Spain, John.

Literally. He has Sarah. Thank you so much for joining us here today. Um, [00:01:00] really be curious what you have to bring to the table because you, I know you have at least one question, but you’ve been sending questions, uh, over time to Casey since you kind of came across us. And so we thought we’d have the on to, uh, just geek out with us on Motivational Interviewing and you recently have, um, uh, become a national certified health and wellness coach, which has.

Motivational Interviewing I, sounds like as a, as a backdrop in there quite a bit. So you’ve been even more immersed in it. So it’s interesting to hear that perspective too, if you want to bring that in, um, whatever you would like to explore, it is completely, your field to do so with Casey and I.

So with that in mind, Sarah, what, would you like to say, what are you curious about and what would you like to explore?

Sarah Cameron: Well, first off, thank you so much for having me. I have become quite the Motivational Interviewing geek, and I look up to you all very highly. So, uh, this is like meeting with celebrities to me. Um, so I’m very [00:02:00] excited.

Um, well, I come to you with questions that kind of come from a different webinar that I was watching actually two different webinars. And they had someone on who was talking about Motivational Interviewing, um, and they were talking about, Motivational Interviewing in the health coaching world? And someone brought up compassion, fatigue, And it really got me thinking, I wonder where compassion, fatigue actually fits in to Motivational Iinterviewing, um, and I kind of wondered if you’re truly, honoring autonomy and if you’re truly empathizing, how does compassion fatigue build?

So that’s kind of my first question.

Casey Jackson: Well, there’s at least an hour and a half conversation. That’s brilliant. [00:03:00] I just, This is why Sarah. I love when, you know, when you connect with me on email and we’ve chatted before I’m already have a, a hundred different thoughts going through my brain and partly is off of kind of a new web and looking at empathy as well too.

The first thing I always say is that there’s so many good, smart, Motivational Interviewing trainers out there and, you know, and all of us have kind of our own take on. And some of the, some of the kind of similar takes in different takes on things. One of the things that I had to a chance to talk to bill Miller about, I actually had a, um, I always say this, this is a social worker.

I was so excited when he and Steven Rolnick were writing about compassion. And as a trainer, I’m going, why the heck are you writing about compassion? Like, it is hard enough for me to get people to really understand accurate empathy. And now we have metrics around that. Why are you introducing compassion?

Is it necessary to, we really be talked to compassion if we have accurate empathy. And this kind of gets to your, a little bit of an answer to your question, what [00:04:00] he’s said to me when I kind of pinned him in a corner to training and was talking to him about this. He said, you know, we’re spending so much time measuring empathy, which needs to happen, you know, for evidence-based practice for us to have some metrics, to be able to get this.

But he’s a part of my concern is I can train a used car salesman to express accurate empathy that doesn’t make it motivational interviewing the used car salesman can understand who you are and what you’re about and what you want and not share anything about themselves and get completely worn into your reality and use that to, you know, make a sale and.

He said that’s, that’s not motivational interviewing. So we have to look beyond that. He goes, and I don’t care if we can ever measure compassion, it needs to be part of the conversation. So what he said with compassion is compassion is that thing that gets us up in the morning. That makes us want to kind of, you know, improve our corner of the world.

And when we see people that we just have that compassion, and this is where it started for me, it kind of came to an answer with what you just asked, [00:05:00] um, with the compassion fatigue. He said, the thing with compassion is you’re that well of compassion inside of you should not be getting filled up with the people that you serve.

That well of compassion side of you should get filled up from things like spiritual pursuits and recreational activities and family and friends and, and things that just fill you up inside. And that’s what that keeps that compassion well full. But if that’s what you’re expecting to get from your clients, that kind of, that well of compassion filled up that’s I think what he’s alluding to is where compassion fatigue comes from..

What I’m going to, what I’m going to take that part of that response. And that is something that struck me recently that I’ve been thinking about. I was in, an amazing conversation with, this woman, Theresa, first nation, um, individual out of Minnesota, actually. And I just worked with her this week.

One of the things we’re talking about from a cross-cultural perspective. And when I was talking about empathy, because she was talking about, I’m [00:06:00] just concerned about judgment and bias and things get pushed in there. I said the thing for me about high accurate empathy, the reason why I get so obsessed with is it feels like every time I get a chance to talk with someone, I get to go on vacation to a different culture, which I love to travel.

So I love that. And so I think with compassion fatigue for me, what I think of from that angle is. Empathy is such an amazing skillset and something we can master. And the more we focus on our mirror neurons and really work on, we can get really high, accurate empathy from this compassionate perspective, but I don’t, I can get tired when I go on vacation and go to a different culture.

But every day I wake up excited, ready to explore new things. And even at the end of the day of my feet are tired and I’m exhausted. And maybe the food isn’t sitting well with me because it is a different culture. I still wake up the next morning. I can’t wait to go. And so I think from that perspective with empathy, um, I don’t get exhausted [00:07:00] from being empathetic.

That’s just me. And so this is why I’m not going to project compassion fatigue on to anyone else and, and how it could be a natural part of Motivational Interviewing or not a natural part of Motivational Interviewing. But what I think of is, is discerning between those two constructs, I think is helpful and looking where the fatigue is coming from is helpful.

I think sympathy is exhausting. Because sympathy can have a sense where we’re disempowered often, like, I don’t even know how, you know, I can’t even imagine how you feel. I can’t imagine what it would be like in your situation. I don’t, I’m not even sure what to say. It just, there’s almost this sense of helplessness to sympathy.

And I think people can confuse sympathy and empathy or the energies around them. And I think constant states of being sympathetic can be exhausting emotionally for us. And for me, empathy can be so stimulating. So I think looking at those three constructs of sympathy, empathy, and compassion, I think it helps us get clearer.

Where does the fatigue come from? And [00:08:00] I can be fatigued now that I’ve jumped on the bandwagon of Peloton. I can be extremely fatigued for 30 minute ride, but I also feel better throughout the day too, because I got in and got that right in. And so I think there’s a difference between that exhaustive fatigue that it just feels like I can’t go to work anymore.

I can’t do this anymore. It’s just draining me and, and healthy stretching of ourselves and growth that can be emotionally taxing. But there’s something incredibly growthful around it at the same time. So I’m just going to spit all of that out and just see what your thoughts or reactions to the context that you were listening to that.

And so I don’t know if that’s helpful or not, but to kind of clean some of that.

Sarah Cameron: Yeah. That’s, that’s very helpful. And it actually gets me thinking about, you kind of presented the idea that, it’s different for each individual and that’s how they work through, or maybe avoid compassion fatigue. Um, it also gets me thinking about there’s an article out there by, Roger neighbors.

His name is, and he talks about a switch. And it’s an empathy [00:09:00] or not empathy switch. Um, and he says that you can’t just toggle in the middl...]]> false https://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/powerpress/watermark_black-applepodcast_sizefinal-866.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/04/08/empathy-in-social-work-with-guest-jonathan-b-singer/ 84354492 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=7777 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Fri, 08 Apr 2022 12:14:30 -0400 Join us as we really plunge into the topic of Empathy! Guest Jonathan B. Singer joins us sharing his expertise in social work and how empathy is best utilized in the field. We also dive into the types of empathy, when to use, or NOT use empathy and even share some tips at the end!

In this podcast we discuss:

• Empathy
• Social Work
• When to use or not use empathy
• Types of empathy
• Tips

About our guest Jonathan: Jonathan B. Singer, Ph.D., LCSW is associate professor of social work at Loyola University Chicago, founder and host of the award-winning Social Work Podcast, past-president of the American Association of Suicidology and coauthor of the 2015 Routledge text, Suicide in Schools: A Practitioner’s Guide to Multi-level Prevention, Assessment, Intervention, and Postvention.

Tami Calais: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast. Here at IFIOC we love to talk communication. We love to talk Motivational Interviewing, and we love talking about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. Today, we’ve got Casey Jackson on the line.

John Gilbert and I’m Tammy. Welcome to the conversation.

John Gilbert: All right. Hello everyone. Welcome back to another podcast with the IFIOC team and we have a very special guest today. Jonathan B singer that through a participant suggestion. Tammy reached out to, and Jonathan graciously agreed to do this, who has an amazing podcast, highly suggests listening to it.

Lots of incredible information that I hope to dive into and ask about today. And so, Jonathan you are an LCSW so, Casey as well, so licensed in social work. And [00:01:00] you’re an associate professor of social work at Loyola university Chicago. So that’s pretty, pretty big as far as I understand, pretty high up, founder and host of the award-winning social work podcast.

So if you’re looking to hear some. Something about social work, social work podcast. Look that up straightforward. And it’s a great podcast. You’re the past president of the American association of suicide-ology and co-author of the 2015 rutlidge text, which you can expand on that. Someone like me doesn’t know what that is.

And your, Dealing with suicide in schools, a practitioner’s guide to multilevel prevention. So I’m sure that’s had a big impact in the world. Assessment, intervention, and postvention. So you’ve done a lot in the social work field and we’re just really happy to have you. So thank you so much for agreeing to do this and just add your, your thought on empathy today as the main focus of what you’ve learned and all the people you’ve interviewed.

That’s the focus as I understand it for today, but before we dive in. Tammy. Casey, do you everything to [00:02:00] add before we ask Jonathan and get going?

Casey Jackson: I just want, I just wanna hear Jonathan respond to that intro. (laughing) that, that for me, I’m just waiting to hear…

Jonathan B. Singer: Thanks for that intro! . You know, the thing about all of those things is that, you know, I, I started out you know, after my MSW program, like everybody, I was looking for a job and like lots of folks, I found a job in community mental health and on the crisis unit.

And I started doing outpatient mobile crisis response with suicide kids. And I quickly realized that doing suicide risk assessment was, fully consistent with everything I learned in social work. Right. And speaking of empathy, right? You have these kids and their families that are going through really, really intense times.

And one of the most powerful things that you can do when you’re working with somebody that’s in that kind of crisis, is to let them know that you get where they are, right. That you, [00:03:00] want to hear their story and that when they tell you their story, you don’t say something Insulting like, oh yeah, man, I’ve been there too.

Right. Which is sort of the opposite of empathy. Right. And so after, after doing that for several years and then starting to teach as an adjunct at UT Austin, again, addressing some of these basic therapeutic skills like empathy I went back to get a PhD. It was just kind of a natural next step.

And then focused on suicide, wrote the book, suicide in schools because my co-author reached out one day and she was like, Hey, is there any, is there a handbook? Is there like a practical guide for practitioners, for folks in schools and folks that work in schools that they could just like pull off a shelf when there’s a suicidal kid in their office and they’re talking to an administrator or parent?

I was like, “no”. And she was like, well, Let’s write it, I was like, oh yeah, let’s, let’s do that. Right. And it’s really interesting because you know, when you, [00:04:00] when you, when you’re talking with teachers and when you’re talking with school staff, There’s a way in which you hang out with these students day in and day out.

And it becomes more like a, a, like a family relationship than it does when you’re just seeing somebody one hour a week. In an office. Right. You can sort of put on the therapist hat, but when a kid’s screaming down the hall and you’re like, “Hey, remember, don’t do that”. And then you see them 10 minutes later in your office, there’s this different sense of like, what is empathy?

Because you actually literally do know what they’ve been seeing. With that idea of empathy, of like being able to see things through somebody else’s eyes, like you literally have been doing that. And so for school folks too much empathy can be problematic because then it’s like, oh, you’re trying to therapize me.

Right. Oh, you’re trying to do that thing. And so it’s, it’s the, the, the, the challenge and the skill of using empathy well, is to know when to use it. [00:05:00] And when to not use it. Hmm. Right. And I’m talking about kids, but you can, you can talk about an adult who’s distrusting, or maybe experiencing some paranoia.

And if you use an incredibly empathetic comment, right. And you’re like, okay, this is where you are. They’re like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You don’t know me. like, why, why are you all up inside my head? Right. And so understanding when and how to use empathy is is part of using it well, like using it correctly. And so then we wrote the book and then

I had been involved with the American association of suicidology for years. And then I ran for the secretary position and then was elected and then got elected as president. And then I stopped that this past August. So, so that’s how all that happened.

Tami Calais: Wow.

Casey Jackson: You know, one of the things I want to kinda revisit you just talked about it.

It’s interesting. When we talk about this and train on this and it’s, this is perfect timing for me, cause I’m just on the heels of [00:06:00] doing a training for the SBIRT for middle schools in king county and Seattle. So the, all the counselors are dealing with the SBIRT screens and just all the things we’re trying to manage and how do we use Motivational Interviewing in line with that?

And so it’s just a great week of training. So I mean, my brain is so oriented to exactly what you’re talking. It’s been my whole week, this week, with these counselors. And what’s so interesting when you’re talking about empathy from that perspective, because they were talking about the same thing, especially in the middle of pandemic.

What they’re talking about is when we do have so many different relationships with these students and in pandemic, how do we get into deeper empathy? When, what I see is kind of this tussle of hair and a mask and eyes, and I don’t, I don’t recognize the, the kids the way I did pre pandemic now that we’re in person.

So it’s just like, literally, how, how does it imprint on my brain? What we’ve taught, talked about. When it is hard to differentiate some of these kiddos with just tussles of hair and, and masks and eyes, and running up and down the halls. And so that part of it, and the other thing that you were talking about that really [00:07:00] I want to dig further into is what we’ve tried to differentiate between more when we’re training, motivational interviewing is a difference between empathy and reflective listening.

I think people get annoyed with reflective listening, and that’s when they feel like they’re being therapiesed and then there’s this flip side that people genuinely want to feel heard and understood. And sometimes people don’t differ. I think professionals don’t differentiate between reflective listening and what high empathy is.

I mean, it’s a vehicle to express accurate empathy, but there is a differentiation that we really try to tease out. So I’m just curious what your thoughts are on that as walking through.

Jonathan B. Singer: Yeah, no, I, I totally agree. And, and, and this is where, you know, empathy, I think is one of the most complicated concepts in, in counseling, right.

In therapy. Because. it’s one thing to be listening to a kid. Who’s like, “dude, I hate this. I hate the masks. I hate all this. I, you know, I don’t wanna be here”, you know, and you can be like, “you’re really angry”. And it’s like, of course I’m angry. Right, right. But then there’s this whole [00:08:00] thing about like, what is it that they’re not wanting to feel?

Yes. Right. What is it that they’re not wanting to experience? What is it that they’re not wanting to do? Right. And, and empathy also includes acknowledging the things that. Our clients that people don’t want to experience. Right? Yeah. Cause that is part of their experience. And that’s an incredibly complicated thing and I love that you, that you put up said that reflective listening is not the same as e...]]> false https://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/powerpress/watermark_black-applepodcast_sizefinal-866.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/03/22/cultural-change-agent-with-guest-kurtis-part-2/ 84180521 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=7691 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:45:54 -0400 Join us for this amazing 2 part podcast!

We have guest Kurtis Robinson on to discuss:

• Motivational Interviewing and change
• Systemic change
• Systems of abuse
• Social justice
• Empowerment

This podcast is deeply riveting and full of great, authentic and real conversations! Join us for part 1 and 2!

About Kurtis:

Kurtis S. Robinson is the current Spokane NAACP 1st Vice President and the Political Action Chair For NAACP AOWSAC,  He serves as a Smart Justice Spokane Executive Committee member, Better Health Together Board Member, and  on the board for Just Lead Washington. He was a Wildland Fire Fighter for over 11 years and has served with WA DNR and Spokane

County Fire District 10. Mr. Robinson is a Certified Peer Support, Recovery Coach, Veterans Recovery Coach and Reentry Specialist. He Identifies as a Formally Incarcerated BIPOC male with over 16 years concurrent abstinence from drugs and alcohol and is the first openly Justice Involved individual to serve as a Governor appointed Commissioner to the Criminal Justice Training Commission  for Washington State.

Hello, and welcome to the Communication Solution podcast. Today, we’ve got Casey Jackson on the line, John Gilbert, and I’m Tammy. Here at IFIOC. We love to talk communication. We love to talk motivational interviewing, and we love talking about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.

If you haven’t already checked out part one of this podcast, make sure to listen to that first. Welcome to the conversation.

John Gilbert: Hello. Hello. Again, we have a super special guest today and not that other guests aren’t special, but we just really love this individual that we have today. His name is Kurtis Robinson and welcome.

And we will be diving in, into possibly a lot of different areas today, as we were just talking about, um, Casey was helping us put up some [00:01:00] guard rails, but we are open to going into lots of places. Lots of possibilities with you today.

Casey Jackson: I I’ve got, I’ve got Kurtis. I got to jump in here for a second because there’s something that got really clarified for me as you were talking as well. And again, this is from, you know, uh, uh, privileged, Caucasian male perspective. So I know that there’s aspects of ignorance to it. What I, the thing that I’m am so aware of in your presence in the way that you show up that I know. Resonates for me wanting to learn more.

And it’s some of the core constructs in Motivational Interviewing that I just get obsessed with. And you brought up is equipoise. There is nothing that you do that generates one ounce of defense in me and everything you say is profoundly provocative. And to me, that is that’s the level of mastery of Motivational Interviewing that I, you know, when people want to get good or better or proficient or exceptional or mastery of [00:02:00] motivational interviewing.

Most of the time we’ll get into kind of Socratic method or we’ll get into, um, how can you be provocative and not have, um, and you have mastered in your presence and the work you’ve done, whatever work you’ve done. And I don’t know the work you’ve done for yourself. You have mastered it in a way that nearly everything that comes out of your mouth when you’re in front of a group is provocative and not one single thing is confrontive.

Like it is it’s disarming. It is thought provoking. I just had this, my brain always works in pictures. It’s like this invitation into this cave of crystals that is incredibly treacherous. Um, so it’s like, well, God, of course, I want to go into, look at all these, these crystals inside of here, and you can do damage to yourself and others.

If you’re not paying attention. Well, I can’t stand at the cave entrance and go, I don’t want to come in. Kurtis just stands there and says, Hey, if you want to walk into this world, well, [00:03:00] there are amazing things you can’t even comprehend. And, and, and there’ll be very, very clear. There are some treacherous things that can do significant damage to if you’re not watching every step along the way.

And that’s the invitation I felt in conversations with Kurtis is like this. It is beyond wonder. It is, it is humbling, um, and awe inspiring.. And it realizes, I realize how small and unaware I am when I’m in that, that, uh, kind of cave of wonder. And that that’s, I think that, that for me, just kind of summarizes, um, the things that I think you embody about what I think of beyond am I, the context of it is this, that fine line.

You were just talking about that tight rope that you walk is being profoundly provocative and never being confrontive.. Like I never feel. Like it. Yeah. But in my brain and thinking about top topics of power and privilege, we’re talking about white supremacy and we’re talking about [00:04:00] all these different issues, our brains, that whole, um, oh my gosh.

Um, um, how to become an anti-racist. Yeah. Every one of those things that just generates that. Yeah, but yeah, but, uh, uh, yeah, but, uh, that just doesn’t get generated. And for me, that is where the depth of learning and, and self-reflection comes from when we talk Motivational Interviewing, is what, I’m not on the defense, then I’m open for change.

I mean, that is the core crux of motivational interviewing it’s I’m not on the defense,. If I’m not in resistance, talk, if I’m not in sustained talk. And in that moment is where our values, we can, we can elevate our values. And I think that is, I think that is the invaluable interactions that, that I experienced when I listened to you in these groups, speak, because it is, that’s why I’ll keep going back to is it is profound and is profoundly provocative. The [00:05:00] things that you talk about and not one thing generates an ounce of, reactivity inside of me, it’s just like, oh my gosh, it just uncovers layers and peels back, very painful pieces of skin, which helps me understand other people’s experience as, as, as layers of my skin get peeled back and it hurts.

It gives me more perspective and other people’s experiences, just a mode of come of, of awareness of that. So I just had to share all that because it was just like, boom, boom. As you were talking, I was just getting infiltrated with like a hundred thoughts about just the, why I just appreciate the interactions that I I’m allowed to have with you

Kurtis Robinson: Casey, I, I just, I mean, you know, as in, how do you talk about being humble and not sound arrogant? Right. All I’m trying to it’s like, I haven’t figured that one out yet. So I feel really, uh, uh, touched, uh, at a very deep, emotional level where I, the only feeling that I can, the way that I can articulate is it makes me feel like kind of humble.

Yeah. [00:06:00] Um, and not trying to say again, I think not trying to sound arrogant about, you know, while now I’m, I’m so humble. I’m so humble, you know, (laughing) but, uh, you know, the, the, um, because my, my experience is when I’m in space with you and John, I have a similar experience. It’s like, wow, these guys are laying it down.

These guys are bringing the real, uh, just, you know, and it just inspires me to like engage and come alongside you and be in there with you because there’s like their stuff like coming out. It’s like, oh, that’s a nugget. Oh, there’s another one. Hey, let’s take a minute. Let’s touch on that. You know, let’s follow that a little bit.

Let’s let’s. You know, let’s take the, uh, uh, what does that, uh, uh, Phil Nye, the science guy, let’s take that wall and expand it a little bit. Know, let’s look at it. Let’s go into that cave of wonders. It, watch your step and you know, and continue to like, yeah, it’s, it’s dangerous and beautiful at the same time.

Welcome. [00:07:00] Right. And so to kind of circle back, John, on what you asked you to what were, what, what I saw in this work after a period of time was like, well, I mean, I obviously saw the real problems yet. I had to approach it in a way it’s like, if all up, because I’ve already had a lifetime of like pointing out everybody’s flaws, Right.

And all that did was just poison the poison that was already in me. Right. It just added more to it. And it’s like, no, I mean, and that, that made me not, that made me not want to be alive. I had several suicide attempts as a human being and one of them very successful. Right. It’s a miracle I’m here today.

And so. Uh, I realized that as I approached life now that when I come down off the mountain could complain about it. You’re right. You know, thank you. And what are you going to do? And so I had to come at it from a different way, and that meant to re-engage my [00:08:00] opportunity to learn and grow as a human being and to be willing to surrender my idea of, uh, you know, uh, world paradigms, uh, uh, societal paradigms, personal paradigms, right. And just let all that go and retrain. And that’s what led to that, to that thing about, okay. Now if I’m doing that, that means I’m going to be consistently doing that. Um, that’s my life now, . Is that I get to do a work around me and do a work in me and many of it at the same time as, I’m swatting and darts and Dodge and swords and surfing through a tsunami, dodging sharks and landmines, right?

I mean, that’s what it’s felt like sometimes. So with that, what I saw at least in the social justice arena was that there were these pieces that, um, service providers and people engaged in the work have gotten that. Everybody kinda like had a piece of the puzzle, [00:09:00] right. At least at the scope that I could, conceptualize at this time, at that time.

Right. And that, agai...]]> false https://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/powerpress/watermark_black-applepodcast_sizefinal-866.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/03/08/cultural-change-agent-with-guest-kurtis-part-1/ 84084773 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=7633 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Tue, 08 Mar 2022 13:49:08 -0500 Join us for this amazing 2 part podcast!

We have guest Kurtis Robinson on to discuss:

• Motivational Interviewing and change
• Systemic change
• Systems of abuse
• Social justice

This podcast is deeply riveting and full of great, authentic and real conversations! Join us for part 1 and 2!

About Kurtis:

Kurtis S. Robinson is the current Spokane NAACP 1st Vice President and the Political Action Chair For NAACP AOWSAC,  He serves as a Smart Justice Spokane Executive Committee member, Better Health Together Board Member, and  on the board for Just Lead Washington. He was a Wildland Fire Fighter for over 11 years and has served with WA DNR and Spokane

County Fire District 10. Mr. Robinson is a Certified Peer Support, Recovery Coach, Veterans Recovery Coach and Reentry Specialist. He Identifies as a Formally Incarcerated BIPOC male with over 16 years concurrent abstinence from drugs and alcohol and is the first openly Justice Involved individual to serve as a Governor appointed Commissioner to the Criminal Justice Training Commission  for Washington State.

We discuss so many great things including:

• Values and Behavior change
• Changing the Juvenile Systems industry approach to change
• Empathy
• Motivational Interviewing
• Empowerment
• How Juvenile systems have changed over the years

Great that you mentioned that Casey about hitting them a harder doesn’t have as much of an impact. It’s not as effective. I was in a training a couple of weeks ago and what they were talking about was [00:01:00] how. There are better outcomes when you’re consistent. So the amount of 30 days versus a couple of days, or, you know, maybe our, our staff are creative.

They have them write papers. They have them watch videos. They have a. You know working on school projects as part of a sanction, instead of just locking kids up. If we have a consistent response to the behaviors that are negatively impacting the youth that has better outcomes than just throwing the hammer out of them every time.

And then it aligns with what the intention of, of. Juvenile rehabilitation. I mean, that’s, that’s what’s so I, I remember I talked about this before, when I was training doc. You know, I I’m literally out at one of the, one of the facilities. I remember making the comment, you all get to choose. Do you want to be department of corrections or do you want to be the department of punishment?[00:02:00]

If you want to be department of punishment, then change your. And it’s the same thing with juvenile real rehabilitation. I mean, it really is focused on rehabilitate. How do we really, the number we look at is reducing recidivism, but we looking at is, which is what these kids to just be go to school, being a normal family, you know, the goods and bads, you know, function, dysfunction and just don’t hurt other people or hurt yourself, you know?

And if we can help that happen a little bit more, I mean, that’s, that’s what rehabilitation should be is that they’re back on track. And, and not as many incidences of where they’re, you know, kind of crossing lines into interfering in other people’s lives in a negative way. So it just that, and now what you’re listening to with even the probation counselor perspective is that’s really what their focus is so much on when you’re hearing about the bus passes and school projects and different ways of looking at sanctions.

It’s just an integrative way of thinking. Yeah, Julie too, with the mention of consistency. It’s so interesting how transcendent that can be, but you’re talking to some degree, I’m [00:03:00] interpreting that you’re alluding to this change in culture that’s happening and being more consistent of the response to what happens.

And so that’s, it sounds like that’s a really, really important shift to the counselor. Like you were talking about Casey from the officer name and that that will create a different culture. And a different organizational system of, you know, who you hire, who you onboard, and then who’s being effective as well with their skillset.

And I really want to just highlight and affirm what you embodied earlier was such a wonderfully in my spirited approach of talking with the parent. And I’m curious to know we don’t have a lot more time, but how you. Also approach these conversations with the youth that might feel like they’re, they have to do things or they’re being forced to do certain things or that they don’t have choices.

And just how you navigate that because you, you obviously, with the parent really came at it from a, strength-based seeing the positive intent behind them, even calling and talking with you and [00:04:00] having empathy for even up to an hour, which is so hard for. Administrators to see the value in for a variety of reasons, but it was just such a wonderful depiction of being with someone in a different way that affects the long-term engagement that can affect the longterm change.

I’m wondering with the youth, then when you’re thinking about them in this place of they’re, they’ve, they’ve gotten, you know, caught there in this, maybe it’s sharing information like you did with the parent about how this is a destructive environment. You know, you get to decide how much your, your son or daughter or person wants to be here.

I don’t know. I’m just wondering for you, how do you go about navigating those in that same? In my spirited way, that tries to recognize there is a place of. Rules that were broken. And how do you go about that? So that’s a, that’s a couple of different things. Those are definitely a few different conversations that we have.

So when we’re working on behaviors now for, well, we’ll say compliance [00:05:00] the things we want you to be successful. So we talk about what their goals are. It really is focusing on their goals for longterm, what are they looking at for their future? How do they envision their future? And so trying to focus on that, how do we get there?

It’s, it’s breaking down those goals into small steps of what do we need to do now today, this week, this month to be successful at reaching those. As far as coming back and what confinement looks like we do talk about what they’re missing when they’re here in our building. They don’t have access to a refrigerator.

They don’t have access to a TV or a shower or their own clothing. And so it’s talking about trying to find out what’s important to them. Is there something that makes them say, oh yeah, I kind of really don’t like that part of it. And then explaining that they’re in charge of their choice. So when they talk about not wanting to come back well, what do you think that’s going to take?

What do you think that behavior would look like? Well, what do you think would bring you back here? So it [00:06:00] is, it’s asking the questions where they’re kind of processing through what the pros and cons are, but letting them know they really are in charge of their choices. And so what that future looks like, I want to weave this into.

Just knowing the amount of evidence-based practice that they’re there. Just the training that just in, in juvenile services period, just there’s so much, it’s at least in what I know around the country, but in Washington state, there’s just so much focus on evidence-based practice training. So, John, it kind of ties into what you were asking about with, how do you justify an hour conversation it now the PCs can lean into what we’re using evidence-based practices.

I, and when I look from a fidelity of my perspective, which is just one of the evidence-based practices that they have access to, I remember one of the first audios that I recorded for coding from a probably it still holds the record. This probation counselor was probation officer at the time [00:07:00] 57 closed questions in 10 minutes.

Like, that’s just the difference between that and the questions you were just listening to Jole. Like the quality of a walk of open-ended questions are different than well. Does your mom know? Did you go to school yesterday? Well, what time did you get up? Well, D would you tell your teacher well, you know, you have to get this done by Friday.

Did you get it done? Well, how often did it go? What time did you get there? Like, just instead of this. Rattling of questions. It’s more traditional from a probation officer. What you’re seeing is the quality of, of mindset is significantly different with probation, counselors, as they’re going in, they’re going, we have to navigate us differently.

And so we’re not using accountability at the forefront. It’s more the backdrop or the horizon of, do you want a life of accountability or do you want a life where you’re free from. The system and you get to choose. I mean, it’s the way that, that the Jolene teed it up and which is why you see, oh my gosh, this is motivational interviewing.

It’s it’s the core construct of Motivational Interviewing is engagement. First. We’re gonna not, we’re [00:08:00] not going to make this contentious and you shall do this, or you will do this, or you’re gonna get consequences. It’s avoiding that resistance out of the gate, avoiding the discord. And if they’re not really fighting with them and you can see the youth fighting with themselves, then you’ve got PCs.

Well, where do you want to go from here? Because this really is your choice. I’m not gonna make you do anything. Here’s the series of consequences and here’s a series of benefits and here’s how people can navigate you know, the court order really effectively, but ultimately you get to choose that.

We don’t get to choose that for you, that framing and that communication that’s, that is a hundred percentMotivational Interviewing based significantly changes the way that the, that the interactions unfold from that point before. Especially, it sounds like from totally what you’re sharing, be it with the parents or with the youth, when you’re looking at that long-term change.

And that there is some kind of therapeutic relationship, even though we may not be explicitly relating our lives to them. There is this therapeutic relationship over time that I know we’ve talked about in trainings [00:09:00] and things, how critical engagement is. We’ve talked about it with groups even just over time.

And so I think you’re giving and demonstrating the importance. Really deep, meaningful engagement, upfront Viet with the parent, be it with the youth and that creating a dynamic of acceptance and openness when you see them as whole and full and not lacking. And, and, and you’re just demonstrating that spirit of. false https://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/powerpress/watermark_black-applepodcast_sizefinal-866.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/02/04/juvenile-systems-and-motivational-interviewing/ 83983668 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=7463 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Fri, 04 Feb 2022 12:59:50 -0500 Wow this podcast is full of great insight and conversation as we have guest Jole Monroe on to discuss Juvenile systems and behavior change! You don’t want to miss this 2 part podcast!

We discuss so many great things including:

• Values and Behavior change
• Changing the Juvenile Systems industry approach to change
• Empathy
• Motivational Interviewing
• Empowerment
• How Juvenile systems have changed over the years

Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast here at IFIOC. We love to talk communication. We love to talk motivational interviewing, and we love talking about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. Today, we’ve got Casey Jackson on the line, John Gilbert, and I’m Tammy.

Welcome to the conversation. You are listening to a two-part podcast. Hello everyone. And welcome back to the communication solution. We have our usual team of the IFIOC team and a very special. Today, we have a special guest, Jole Monroe.. And we will just be having a conversation here withJole, about all sorts of different things that we can dive into related to being a probation, counselor, and what that means.

And how would you use MI in a compliance. [00:01:00] Possibly perceived environment and all sorts of different angles of this. But before we do, I know Casey, you had some particular questions or things to maybe introduce us about or introduce Jole about. So if you wouldn’t mind kind of starting with.

Sure. Well, Jole and I have known each other personally, professionally for years. And I’ve watched Jole kind of move through the, through the juvenile system not from a child, but from just ongoing connections that I’ve had with different juvenile probation. You know, systems around the country.

But probably the most, because I live in Spokane as well, just such a connection and partnership, strong partnership with Spokane juvenile, and you know, where there was originally kind of some training at Motivational Interviewing and they wouldn’t hear about it for years. And then like a couple other trainings and then probably within the last 18 months to two years, Just it’s been more of an ongoing relationship, even on a statewide level at the JRA level that they’ve asked us to do trainings for all the, the [00:02:00] PCs around the state as well.

Just looking at a fidelity based integration and, and Jolie has really spearheaded that, and Spokane just always has a finger in theMotivational Interviewing side of things just going, how do we keep incorporating that? And how do we make it real? The, the thing that I want to tee up with with Jole as well too, and I think people will be interested in.

Is because from a supervisory level and an expectation on performance, what I know in the world that, that she works within is that they’re just legislatively. They’re just taking away. So many of the compliance tools, you know, always considered more of the hammers for compliance to keep juveniles, following conditions of probation, which are mandated.

Definitely, definitely accountability, Casey, like. Yeah, well, that’s, that’s what gets handed down to them to the, to the PC or the you know, the PC is that it’s the juveniles a broken. And there’s accountability for [00:03:00] that. So it’s beyond accountability. There is like, it’s not that yeah. You need to clean your room.

It’s like, there’s a whole different level of legal accountability. And historically there’s always been able to kind of rattle this, you know, kind of rattled the sheath of you know, you, you know, if you don’t do this, you’re going to go to detention or I’m going to put you in front of the judge. And so there’s always those kinds of threats that have had some.

At least it felt like there was some motor come of accountability that, that probation counselors could use. And more and more of those compliance methods have been taken away. Those tools have been taken away. And, but the expectation that the juveniles still follow through have not been taken away.

Those are still, you know, at the forefront. And I think that’s been, from my sense on at least a national level, why there’s been more and more gravitation towards evidence-based practices and specifically motivational interviewing. It’s like the way I train it is how do you use your words and how are you going to use communication to try to get.

You know, some behavior change to happen and try to see this in relationship with compliance. So that’s why I was so [00:04:00] excited about having Jole, come on to give us more of a three-dimensional perspective from supervising, trying to manage and really looking at both sides from the court expectation court order.

The pressure that’s on PCs and then looking at the youth as well, too, and the families and how complex it’s getting just more and more complex with those youth and families, 13 linguists. So I’m just going to spew all that out there, Jole, just because I know that now I know your brain’s already firing, so just dive in and respond at will.

So. Well, thank you for having me today. I’m very excited to be here and yes, we so appreciate the relationship that we have with your agency and the training, the quality training that our staff are always getting. But as I kind of briefly talked about prior, we have new staff coming on and we have this training coming up for motivational interviewing.

And so I’m really excited just to bring everybody in immediately to how we work with youth. You hit everything. Challenges us [00:05:00] motivating youth and young people for compliance with their court orders. So in the last year, the state of Washington did remove the ability to issue warrants unless youth are a threat to public safety.

Oh, wow. Now we’re our compliance consists really of trying to motivate youth on why they should change to benefit their future, which is what am I does. And so learning how to be creative finding a use, motivation has been, their underlying values has been just what we’ve been working on. And so having, having them understand how their future does rely on what they do now, school, where they’re living not committing more offenses or, you know, avoiding recidivism.

That’s really what we’re trying to focus on now. And so it’s quite a different. From where probation was 20 years ago and even 15, 10 years ago.[00:06:00]

I just wanted to take a moment to say thank you for all the work that you’re doing then, because that is a huge shift in the way that we’re just being with people. It is. And are the staff here at juvenile court really work hard for that. So we focus a lot more on. Then we used to, so what is keeping a youth from being successful?

What do they need in the home? How can we support that? How do we support them in getting to school? And so that really is the position that we’re working from now, instead of you have all these rules to follow and you must follow them well, how do we help you follow through on this stuff and not have the violation?

Is it an alarm clock? Do we help them set up their phone? Do they need just bus passes to get to school? And then it’s supporting them through getting engaged with counseling or treatment and helping them make the phone calls or fill out paperwork. We often have probation counselors here that [00:07:00] will help fill out.

Packet to refer them to chemical dependency treatment. I’m not sure if anybody’s ever seen a packet like that, but they’re quite in depth or 20 to 30 pages. Yes, it’s, it’s a booklet that they’re doing. And some of the families have, it’s challenging to complete. So our probation counselors will step in and help them fill that out.

And so again, it’s really meeting the family and the youth where they’re at to help engage them and help them understand how this is going to benefit them. So working with teenagers, we have to have that. When we tell them what they’re going to do, it doesn’t work. And actually, I guess that’s what a lot of people, not just people it’s helping, having them come up with a case plan, what their goals are and helping them come up with the steps they need to do to meet those goals.

Well, and this is the thing you can see, like before we went on, you know, Jole kind of clarify it, that it’s not probation officers anymore, that it’s [00:08:00] it’s probation counselors, and you can see why that shift in language. So it’s not just a PR stunt. It literally is. It’s, it’s a significant shift in perception of role and.

And think about that. If it’s, if, if it’s changed as much in the last 10 to 15 years, you know, people are in this career for quite a while. Usually the, I mean, in my experience, what I’ve seen is people move from detention up into probation and it’s kind of the natural progression. It means you’ve been around the system for a long time, and this is just not culturally.

And historically how the juvenile system has worked. It really has been compliance driven. And when I, when I was like, looking at is in real time, is then the probation counselors or. In this catch 22, because you have parents calling saying, throw them in detention, like punish them. And so it’s almost like a surrogate, a surrogate mean parent like you’d be the mean parent and let us be the good parent.

And yeah, they were smoking weed and yeah, they didn’t go to school, but don’t tell them that I told you that. And it’s just like [00:09:00] very, very they ended up perpetuating a really unhealthy family system because the family co-ops them into an unhappy, healthy family system. And, and try to, to try to be empathetic and to be present and support the families and the youth and not get sucked into that dynamic is extremely complex, extremely complex, beca...]]> false https://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/powerpress/watermark_black-applepodcast_sizefinal-866.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/01/21/podcast-the-righting-reflex-relationships/ 83931565 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=7366 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Fri, 21 Jan 2022 11:19:30 -0500 This jam packed podcast is full of great stuff!

Have you heard of the Righting Reflex? The righting reflex in communication is a concept IFIOC teaches in our Introduction to Motivational Interviewing classes, as it’s our natural instinct to keep ourselves in balance or with a compassionate heart, help others stay in balance. (We dive deeper into the Righting reflex in the podcast).

The righting reflex in communication is a tool that can help your conversations be more effective and efficient when discussing change or reducing resistance.

We cover so many great things including:

• The history of the Righting Reflex
• The Righting Reflex comes from a desire to help
• Curiosity vs Judgement
• Understanding our own bias
• And so much more!

00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast today. We’ve got Casey Jackson on the line, John Gilbert, and I’m Tammy here atIFIOC. We love to talk communication. We love to talk motivational interviewing, and we love talking about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.

Welcome to the conversation today. And we’ll be addressing the righting reflex and communication, particularly in relationships and maybe that’s friendships. Maybe that’s romantic relationships. We can talk about this a little bit more, but in relation to. Uh, seems to be a little more personal than professional is what I’m gathering from this.

So, uh, for anyone that would like to start us off, what are your initial thoughts? We could define our terms. Casey, you had looked at some stuff to see if you knew the history of this or how it was created. We could start there, or I [00:01:00] don’t know if there’s another place you want. I’d be curious to start with more of the history of how, where did this come from?

We talk about it in IFIOCs trainings, but yeah, I, you know, one of the things that, the vast majority of things, I just, as a trainer, or just as somebody whose knowledge, I just want to know what I’m talking about. So it’s something I looked up quite a while ago and I think. When I was first learning, am I in training?

You know, getting trained on Motivational Interviewing and training. And my, I just thought Righting Reflex was something that was an Motivational Interviewing term. Um, and, but then when I was looking about teaching that I wanted to look up some pictures and that which led me down a whole rabbit hole and, and it, it is a reflex. It is a, it’s a human reflex.

Um, the righting reflex, it is a combination of things with our sensory input that helps us to stand up straight, um, to not fall over. Yeah. So there is a, how do we, how do we stay centered? And so between our, our vision between our hearing, between [00:02:00] our vestibular system, there’s multiple systems that help us.

Literally, we’re such an awkward tall thing that, that we don’t fall over as we’re putting one foot in front of the other has to do with this whole complex thing about writing reflex it, the one that, and that wasn’t even where I originally started when I was doing kind of my, I want to understand what this means.

It was the most popular things that came up were around cats. Um, That a cat will physiologically write itself in the air. If it gets tossed up in the air or it falls out of a tree, that little body and all the muscles in it will wiggle every way it can to make sure that it lands on all fours. Um, and so literally it will write itself in the air and land on its feet.

Um, so that’s, that’s the source of it. And so when you think about that in relationship with motivational interviewing, it’s when we start to fall out of our own orientation, It’s how do we get back oriented to where our center is? Um, so it’s usually when something is triggering us and the way we teach it [00:03:00] at IFIOC, is that when something is triggering your values, either in a way that you believe in, or you disagree with the stronger that conflicts with or aligns with the more.

Wanna write, you know, to, to, to show where your orientation is into that. Um, and traditionally we think in motivational interviewing more often than not, it’s usually when somebody is doing something that completely goes against our, our values or what we think might be good for them or what we think the fix might be.

When I talk about it that most people relate to is, you know, I was talking to the training. I don’t care where you fall on the political spectrum and I don’t care what news station you watch or what social media that you’re most drawn to. But what I tell people is I can almost guarantee in 2020, around, you know, September, October, November, right before the presidential elections in the us, I can guarantee no matter what news station you go towards or, or apps you look at or social media, I can [00:04:00] almost guarantee your righting reflex was triggered no matter where you are or why the spectrum, that you’re seeing things that don’t feel right to.

So it’s this, there’s kind of an amalgam of different ways. We looked at the righting reflex, but it’s basically, you look at something, you go, that’s not right. And when you see that it’s not right, you want to do something to correct it, to make it right. You want to post something, you want to scream something you want to, you know, you want to pound your fist on the table and say, that’s not right.

This is what. That’s your righting reflex. When you get into personal relationships, what it is is you can see people making decisions that you’re going, oh my gosh, this is doing damage to you. Or that’s not a good way to parent. If we see somebody spank a child in a grocery store, you’re righting reflexes.

That’s not okay. Um, because your righting reflects is getting triggered. That doesn’t look right to you. So that’s, that’s kinda the, the backdrop to different concepts around the writing reflex. And this my mind was going in so many different [00:05:00] ways, Casey, but, um, one thing that’s really fascinating and I don’t I’m, I don’t know if either of you have the answer to this or anything, but I’m thinking about our righting reflex com like in 1995, compared to 2015.

So as social media has grown, I feel like we see more people’s righting reflex’s. But I don’t know if that’s because the righting reflex is become stronger with people or now people just have a platform to share it. I, I, yeah, I just off the top of my head, what I think of is, I don’t know if the righting reflex is any different today than it was in the wild west.

Um, you know what I mean? That when you see something or in the south, or, you know, I just, I can take anybody at least in, you know, this is very, you know, you know, cultural centric has just been, when I think from a us perspective, you know, my brain, then I keep thinking about all these different areas in time [00:06:00] and I just think, oh my gosh, Look at the civil unrest around this and how many opinions there are the civil war.

I mean, they’re just, there’s all sorts of writing reflex around and, and even to go back, you know, further and, and see Casey used to train on it this way in a certain way, that goes, you know, we’re always going to be influenced by our own culture, but whether you believe in creationism or you believe in evolution or something that.

Just the very fact of when you come up to another person, be it back in the Savannah or whatever, where you go, do we commune or do we go to war? And you, you had, uh, talked about that many years ago as, as a way of thinking. And so much of our realities are egocentric to our perspective. And so if you don’t align with what I think is right, my center, that you were implying, Casey, you’ve got a lot for a lot of things.

Is my center is that I am right. [00:07:00] And that therefore, if you are not right with me, we go to. And that to me goes way further back and is way more deeply rooted in a source of many things outside of even, you know, I believe humans, but the whole idea of that is to try to now shape that back into relationships.

To me, uh, we could get in a very deep, very nuanced conversation about identity politics, cancel culture, human rights, equal opportunity, equal outcome, and all these things. Right. But to me, there’s a lot of righting reflux for sure. And it’s easier to be distanced from all that, with my righting reflex, if it’s not affecting me or I’m, I believe, or perceive it’s not affecting me day to day, versus someone that believes or perceives it does when you take that into your inner circle of someone.

That you’re with day to day, or very often either romantic or friendship or business even, uh, you’re you’re in a relationship and the closer you [00:08:00] get to your inner circle and the more they’re their influence and you’re influencing them. Day-to-day the more that writing. Seems to be intense because it’s more attachment to the outcome.

It doesn’t mean that’s not for a lot of other people with some of these bigger things, but given today’s topic is the relationships there seems to be an intensity. The more you have your inner circle involved of what you think is right. Especially if it’s kids and there’s an innocence like you were getting at case.

Vaccines or all these other things we could talk about there there’s innocence. So I got to do what’s right. But I’m wondering your thoughts of either your experiences or as you think about kind of inner circle and relationships what’s been your experience, or what do you think about the writing reflects in those investors?

The way that, that made it easiest for me to kind of comprehend it, you know, in 10 may, I’ve talked about this before, i...]]> false https://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/powerpress/watermark_black-applepodcast_sizefinal-866.png https://www.ifioc.com/2022/01/14/podcast-leadership-confidence-and-guest-john/ 83931564 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=7304 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Fri, 14 Jan 2022 17:33:31 -0500 What an honor it was to have guest John Whitson-Russell on our Podcast! John is from the UK and knows Casey and John from training. He loves Motivational Interviewing and just started a new role within his company using his expert skills.

In this podcast we discuss:

• Leadership
• Confidence
• Competence
• Motivational Interviewing
• And much more!

You don’t want to miss out!

Want to be a part of our podcast? Ask your questions, or provide topic suggestions to us by e-mailing casey@ifioc.com. Make sure to subscribe, like and comment with your thoughts! Thanks for listening to the Communication Solution.

Listen up as we discuss:

• Motivational Interviewing in a compliance world
• Parenting and MI
• Empathy and how it can change the world

And much more!

Want a transcript?

Want to be a part of our podcast? Ask your questions, or provide topic suggestions to us by e-mailing casey@ifioc.com. Thanks for listening to the Communication Solution.

You don’t want to miss this one! In this podcast we explore affirmations in Motivational Interviewing.

Listen up as we discuss:

• The different type of Affirmations
• Reflections vs. Affirmations
• Praise vs. Affirmations

and much more!

Want a Transcript?

All right. Hello everyone. And welcome to the communication solution with us here, the MIguys, and we are here to help you empower the individuals, organizations, and communities that you serve as always. And to do that today, we have. That’s some of you might know about cold affirmations and we’re going to dig into affirmations today from a variety of angles and for a variety of reasons.

So that’s, as far as I understand, but anything else, Tammy, for adding. Well, before we get started, I wanted to make sure everyone knows who’s on the line here. We’ve got John Gilbert who is hosting this party today. We’ve got Casey Jackson and I’m leading the party today. And I have Tami Calais who was also also participating.

But yes, today we are talking about affirmations in Motivational Interviewing. So affirmations are, it’s kind of a big topic. I know we talk about it in our trainings but I [00:01:00] wanted to dive a little bit deeper into affirmations and maybe like, you know, where did they first come from? You know, what’s the difference between affirmation and praise?

I think that’s a common one that’s gets kind of mixed up, but we can go also a lot of different directions too. So. Does anyone have a place that we want to start this conversation? Yeah. Tammy, just from what you said, you know, even from the part, I think it’s great for us to look at the difference between a affirmations and praise.

I think there’s parts that we can get lost in semantics. And I think there’s parts where it is very helpful to kind of split things out. So we are using what we’re talking about accurately and effectively, you know, the way we traditionally train it at IFIOC. The difference fundamentally between, do you want compliance or do you want behavior change?

And even though they sound nice, praise is nice. It’s not mean it’s not, it’s not [00:02:00] with a whip and a chair that you’re praising people. It’s, there’s nice and there’s reinforcement to it. But one of the things that we look at is the praise kind of agreeing, approving of people, praising them. It tends to be that we’re reinforcing that their behavior is something that we liked.

Or that somebody else needs to see or the system wants them to do. And we tend to praise people for that. It doesn’t mean we couldn’t praise them for doing what they want to do, but praise really is that. I’m grant, I’m granting you. I’m approving I’m I’m I’m my status gives more credence to your status.

You know that I can see it, that I’m witnessing it and I’m going to praise you for that. And then I’m going to keep saying it’s not bad. It’s not bad. It’s structurally different in the way the brain processes that then the way an affirmation does, the reason why we look so much at affirmations is because the whole.

In motivational interviewing is we’re trying to facilitate and foster longer-term sustained behavior change. So when you get into [00:03:00] praising people, you can reinforce a pattern. Where, when they feel praise from you that they want to seek that from you more often, that approval are they, do you see that I’m good at doing a good job and you know, which we see even, even with, you know, kids on the dance, little kids on a dance floor, a little kids in a softball game or something like that.

It’s like as soon as they do something, the first thing they do is look in the stands to make sure mom dad’s side and good job, good job. And, and, and again, that’s not bad. It reinforces behavior. But does it create longterm sustained change? And affirmation is how do you build that structure from within, and you build that structure from within is that that narrative starts to become an internal narrative.

And when it’s an internal narrative, then you, you use that to support a sense of self efficacy. You use it to develop a sense of personal agency, and then I’m sure John’s going to dive into they’re just all there’s so much research about self-affirmation. And so [00:04:00] the, the, the road that you start on to build self-affirmation is on the road from affirmation, which is way further down the line than just praise.

Well, real quick, before we move on too fast. So I do want to take a moment for those that don’t know what self-efficacy is. Can we take a moment to explain that. Yeah. I mean, and I don’t know, I don’t study it exclusively, so there could be others things beyond what I’m about to say, but I know it deals with the sense of, do I feel able to make a change happen?

Do I have the ability and sense of confidence to make that change happen? And to what degree? I feel able in a sense of confidence. A way of thinking about self-efficacy. And so one way to think about how much am I addressing self-efficacy in a conversation is how much am I calling out abilities that I see within the person?

How much am I calling out that when you put your mind to [00:05:00] something you’ve been successful or guiding towards, which aren’t necessarily affirmations, but things about past successes are classic in MI. What, when have you been in difficult situations in the past site? Been able to make it through you’re addressing their abilities and them to talk about that.

Right. So that’s the self-efficacy and in terms of affirmation, it’s calling those things out and making those things from, and I just wanted to highlight that as another level, or just another point to what Casey was talking about, which is. To pat someone on the head or to prize something as you kind of put it out in some of those old slides, Casey, we used to talk about the Latin root means to prize of praise and the Latin root of affirmation is to affirming, to make firm.

So in the case of self-efficacy you could make from that someone has the ability to put their mind to something and be successful. Or you could make from that they have more within them than they [00:06:00] realize they have so much in them that they’ve demonstrated or that, you know, they know that they could do.

And that is really, those are the sorts of affirmations that make from self-efficacy, but you could make from a lot of other things like personal agency and some other things we could get into as well. So another weird thing that I’d say just to kind of round that out from what John said is when you just look at the words, self efficacy, it’s just efficacy is to be effective.

Do I think I have the capacity to be effective with this? Do I have the ability to exert control over my own motivation or my behavior or my environment? And, and where’s my confidence in that the, where do I feel I can be effective? And the stronger, the self-efficacy obviously the more we feel solid in our personhood in, in, in the way that we, we navigate, you know, relationships, situations, you know, things like that.

So that’s how I’d [00:07:00] run it out too. It just, when you look at the word self efficacy, Can I be effective? Do I have the capacity to be effective? In whatever I’m doing with my thoughts, my emotions, my behaviors. Can it be effective with that? So has anyone compared, cause as you guys talk about it affirmations and empowerment, because I feel like those are, are very similar also.

Cause I feel like affirmations in Motivational Interviewing create empowerment. Yes. Yes. Casey, I’m curious for you to talk about this in relation to long-term change here in a sec. I just want to say this while it’s on my mind that I know I, at one point I talked about with Dr. Susan Butterworth for, you know, if we ever change anything in the MC in the future that changing, supporting autonomy and activation to be empowerment, because that’s so much of what you’re doing.

You’re putting the responsibility back in the choice in a supportive way. Yeah. Activation, which we’ll talk about later, the affirmation and everything like that back into their lap. And all of that is [00:08:00] this umbrella of empowering the individual as Casey, Utah. Me, maybe if it’s an umbrella metaphor, one way to empower with a piece.

You know, one of the spokes holding up the umbrella is affirmation and there are other things you could do to empower people. But affirmation is definitely under what I might, you know, use that metaphor of yours, Casey, under the umbrella of empowerment, but there are other things you can do to empower as well.

But I am curious kind of how you would use that. What Tammy brought up Casey for long-term change with, with affirmations and empowerment as well. I think empowerment. I think that there are the things that go hand in glove and which fits under which umbrella, when we’re thinking about self self-efficacy and empowerment affirmations, I think of the strategy.

It is such a specific technique. To do an affirmation in Motivational Interviewing. It’s how [00:09:00] do I frame this in a way with inside this person’s worldview, that their behavior is getting them, that, which they want that process is an empowering process, but the strategy I’m using for that is specifically, how am I, how am I opening my mouth and forming words?

That’s that’s a strategic intervention. That’s an affirmation in Motivational Interviewing. You’re, you know, you’re providing this statement, this...]]> false https://www.ifioc.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/powerpress/watermark_black-applepodcast_sizefinal-866.png https://www.ifioc.com/2021/11/09/podcast-what-is-an-evidence-based-practice/ 83931561 https://www.ifioc.com/?p=6908 The IFIOC-Casey Jackson Tue, 09 Nov 2021 18:19:58 -0500 What is an Evidence Based Practice?

You don’t want to miss this one! In this podcast we explore what exactly IS an Evidence Based Practice. We of course also discuss Motivational Interviewing as an Evidence Based practice.

Listen up as we discuss:

• Grandma’s Recipe for MI or any Evidence Based practice
• Getting the best outcomes
• Data behind Evidence Based practices
• Soft skills vs. Hard skills
• Practice and Feedback

You don’t want to miss this one! This question comes from understanding what commitment talk sounds like and why it’s important in the Motivational Interviewing process.

We discuss:

• Change talk vs. Commitment talk
• Converting Change talk to commitment talk
• Different types of Communication methods

You don’t want to miss this one! This real life question came up in one of our trainings! As we were discussing trying to take “I” out of our language when having a Motivational Interviewing based conversation, someone in the healthcare field wondered if they could use “we” instead of “I”. For example: “We know in the healthcare field that smoking is bad for you.” Rather than, “I know that smoking is bad for you.”

Listen up as we discuss:

• Discord or resistance
• Partnership in Motivational Interviewing
• Stages of change
• Ambivalence
• Sharing information

• Comment below what you thought of the podcast
• Submit a question and JOIN us on the podcast! E-mail casey@ifioc.com
• Share our podcast on your social media channels using #themiguys

You don’t want to miss this one!

We discuss:

• Empathy
• Counseling vs. 3-5 minute conversations
• Trauma
• Reflective listening
• And so much more!

• Comment below what you thought of the podcast
• Submit a question and JOIN us on the podcast! E-mail casey@ifioc.com
• Share our podcast on your social media channels using #themiguys

• Empathy/compassion
• Types of talk
• Catchphrases for e-mail
• You statements

Listen in as we answer this question from one of you! You don’t want to miss this one!!

In this podcast we discuss:

• Focus Mountain
• Motivational Interviewing
• Change talk
• And much more!

Want to be a part of the conversation?

• Comment below what you thought of the podcast
• Submit a question and JOIN us on the podcast! E-mail casey@ifioc.com
• Share our podcast on your social media channels using #themiguys

This critical conversation dives into Motivational Interviewing and how some people have viewed it as manipulation. We discuss how training can impact that viewpoint and the importance of training Motivational Interviewing as an evidence based practice, to fidelity.

Where should I start when working with someone who is ego based and has uninformed resistance?

Listen in as we answer this question from one of you! This shorter podcast is discussing one of YOUR questions, trying to navigate uninformed resistance. You don’t want to miss this one!

Want to be a part of our podcast? Ask your questions, or provide topic suggestions to us by e-mailing casey@ifioc.com

Listen in as we answer this question from one of you! This shorter podcast is discussing can you use Motivational Interviewing to “get” people to do something? We dive into the intention of Motivational Interviewing and the concept of “Equipoise”. You don’t want to miss this one!

This critical conversation dives into Motivational Interviewing and how some people have viewed it as manipulation. We discuss how training can impact that viewpoint and the importance of training Motivational Interviewing as an evidence based practice.

Listen in as we answer this question from one of you! This shorter podcast is discussing what to do (from a Motivational Interviewing lens) when your client says, “no” when you ask if you can share ideas with them.

Join us as we dive into this great question from one of YOU our listeners, on how to navigate working with someone being negative and whether we can tell them they are being negative. This podcast is full of great stuff you won’t want to miss out!

Listen in as we answer this question from one of you! This shorter podcast is discussing what to do (from a Motivational Interviewing lens) when your client won’t talk.

The IFIOC team dives deep into Ambivalence. A topic we often discuss during our trainings on Motivational Interviewing and effective communication. This is part 2 of this podcast, to listen to part 1 click HERE.

Listen in as we answer this question from one of you! This shorter podcast is discussing how IFIOC got started with working with Law Enforcement as well as discussing the incredible outcomes that transpired from the training.

The IFIOC team dives deep into Ambivalence. A topic we often discuss during our trainings on Motivational Interviewing and effective communication.

Dive deep into the topic of Leadership with the IFIOC team as we explore how beneficial Motivational Interviewing is as a leader and for organizations.

This question is from one of our members! They are curious how Motivational Interviewing can help improve their teams outcomes.

Some people learning Motivational Interviewing get stuck in empathy, and don’t create a plan to move forward.  This podcast is answering the question, “How do you create a plan in Motivational Interviewing”.  So check out this shorter 10-20 minute podcast!

This is a part 2 of a podcast (first one released November 2020) of a deep dive into how to share information in a helpful way.  Based of of Motivational Interviewing, we discuss the importance of partnering with people to share valuable insights and ideas-at the right stage of change and in a way that helps to create empowerment.

Check out our skill building worksheets on Sharing information!

This AMAZING podcast goes over how you can share information in Motivational Interviewing. As most of you know if you’ve taken one of our courses, sharing information can create resistance, so this podcast is a deep dive into how to best share information!

Check out this short podcast asking the question-can you use Motivational Interviewing with kids?

Have a question you’d like The Communication Solution to answer via our podcast? Send to tami.calais@ifioc.com

If you have any questions or topic suggestions please e-mail tami.calais@ifioc.com

This Podcast is a two part series on Equipoise and the Righting Reflex. Did you know that in communication we have a reflex that naturally happens? Listen to this podcast to learn more about that reflex that in Motivational Interviewing we learn to suppress, as well as learn about equipoise-the ability to be neutral or unbiased.

This short podcast answers one of YOUR questions-Can Motivational Interviewing be helpful for those with depression?

If you have any questions or topic suggestions please e-mail tami.calais@ifioc.com

This podcast is about a way that IFIOC teaches Motivational Interviewing to include values as an option in addition to a target behavior. We learn about how this process evolved and how it’s helpful when using Motivational Interviewing.

How to guide a conversation when it’s emotional?

Have you heard of Discord?  Most probably know what Resistance is, but why is discord sometimes used in our trainings and in Motivational Interviewing?

Check out this Podcast on it!

This podcast is a follow up to another IFIOC podcast about IFIOC teaching Relationship based classes.

If you have any questions or topic suggestions please e-mail tami.calais@ifioc.com

This is a FANTASTIC podcast about Motivational Interviewing, Values and behavior change.

Listen up if you want to understand how to create sustained behavior change and the why behind behavior change.

Send questions or topic suggestions to tami@calais@ifioc.com

Join us for this question from one of YOU discussing how MI can be used both professionally and personally.

Please e-mail any questions, topic suggestions to tami.calais@ifioc.com

Join us in this 30ish minute podcast as we discuss what Motivational Interviewing is!

Question from the audience: How do you prevent miscommunication in conversations?

To submit questions e-mail tami.calais@ifioc.com

Join Casey, John and Tami as we discuss one of Casey’s favorite questions to help someone go from being “stuck” to unstuck!

This riveting question, is all about helping people think about their legacy and how their decisions today can impact that legacy, check it out!

If you have any questions or topic suggestions, please e-mail tami.calais@ifioc.com.

What is it? Why do we want to know more about it?  In this approximately 15 minute discussion Casey shares his insights on executive functioning and how it plays a pivotal role in empowering others to make decisions and use critical thinking skills.

This podcast is also a GREAT one for parents, because as parents we want to engage our kid’s executive functioning capabilities-to help facilitate independent kids that know how to problem solve and critically think about things.

Contact: tami.calais@ifioc.com with any questions, topic suggestions or comments!

Rachel notes in her industry she is often “checking in” with folks and is curious how to do that in an MI adherent way.

To ask questions, make topic suggestions or comments e-mail tami.calais@ifioc.com

Contact: tami.calais@ifioc.com with any questions, topic suggestions or comments!

Join us for answering one of your questions! In this shorter 10+ minute podcast we answer the question, “Can you make suggestions in Motivational Interviewing?”

Subscribe to the Communication Solution today! And send us YOUR questions to answer! Send to tami.calais@ifioc.com

Join us for this 30+ minute podcast as we discuss what the MICA is, and why it was created!

Discover some of the ways we can listen from a fidelity based brain to Motivational Interviewing.

Subscribe to the Communication Solution today! And send us any topics you want us to discuss! Send to tami.calais@ifioc.com

Join us for another 10+ minute listener question! What is supporting Autonomy and Activation or SAA?

Casey answer this listener question about what supporting autonomy and activation is, and how to embody that. A great skill to add to any conversation, whether your using Motivational Interviewing to effect behavior change, or just listening and talking with a friend.

Subscribe today and send us YOUR questions to answer on the show! Send to: tami.calais@ifioc.com

In real life, how do I help or respond when someone says to me, “I want to make a change, but down the road, not now.” Where do I go from there to help them get to where they want to go? Clearly there seems to be some ambivalence.

Casey discuss’s the answer to this listener question. So check it out and send any questions our way and we will answer them on the Communication Solution! Send to: tami.calais@ifioc.com

Join us for this 30+ minute podcast on the 5 MI Intentions. Where the MICA focus’s more on the intention or reasoning behind the communication and language. This is a riveting conversation that helps all of us be more mindful of our intentions when entering into conversations.

Subscribe today to the communication solution!  Contact: tami.calais@ifioc.com with any questions, topic suggestions or comments!

The Institute for Individual and Organizational Change (IFIOC) teaches Motivational Interviewing in a unique way. We go beyond just teaching Motivational Interviewing, weaving in communication concepts and psychology concepts.

Join us for this short 10+ minute podcast on what the rule of 3 is, and how to use it!

This is a concept that is used within our teaching of Motivational Interviewing, but can be used in every day communication too, to help others know and recognize their own values.

Subscribe to The Communication Solution today! Contact: tami.calais@ifioc.com with any questions, topic suggestions or comments!

Join us as we explore mindful communication, recognizing and being aware of what comes out of our mouths, and how that effects communication. It becomes a mind shift when you recognize the power of communication and how it alters interactions with people.

Check out the podcast to learn more, and start becoming more mindful of your communication today!

Subscribe to The Communication Solution today! Contact: tami.calais@ifioc.com with any questions, topic suggestions or comments!

This podcast is all about how this evidence based communication method has changed our life and how we think it can help others. Whether your a parent trying to connect with your teenager, a boss trying to be a leader or a friend trying to help a friend, you will find tips all throughout this series to help you communicate more effectively.

Subscribe to The Communication Solution today! Contact: tami.calais@ifioc.com with any questions, topic suggestions or comments!