Gospel Tangents Podcast

Why 40% Are Leaving the Church (It’s Not Because They’re “Lazy”) (Rick B)

Rick B — Mon, 18 May 2026 02:51:40 -0400

Are you or someone you love navigating a faith crisis? You are not alone. Jeff Strong says 40% are leaving the Church.

40% are Leaving?

https://youtu.be/k7olHf9sSq0

A historic shift is transforming the religious landscape. According to Jeff Strong’s new book Torn, nearly 40% of members are stepping away from their faith communities. But why is this happening, and how can we better understand and support those we love who leave? In this video, we unpack the insights from four groundbreaking books: Torn, Goodbye Religion, Bridges, and The Next Mormons. We are tackling the tough questions and busting the harmful myths that say people leave because they are “lazy learners,” easily offended, or simply want to sin. The reality is far more complex.

For many, a faith transition is an agonizing, lonely, and deeply principled journey triggered by a desire for moral integrity rather than a loss of morals. We will compare the data across these four sources to explore the profound emotional toll of a faith crisis, while offering actionable, research-backed advice for current members. Discover how shifting our focus from “fixing” doubts to listening, empathizing, and providing unconditional love can help build bridges and keep our families together.

Listen now to learn how we can transform judgment into compassion and better minister to those we love!

Don’t miss our other conversations on faith crisis.

Tracing Nauvoo Roots of Mormon Garments (Nancy Ross & Jessica Finnigan)

Rick B — Fri, 15 May 2026 07:40:41 -0400

Radical History and Racial Dynamics of Mormon Garments Nancy Ross and Jessica Finnigan, co-authors of Mormon Garments, Sacred and Secret dive into the unexpected history and sociological complexities of LDS temple garments. From Joseph Smith’s early design demands to the modern realities of race and garment surveillance, this episode uncovers the fascinating evolution of this deeply personal practice. https://youtu.be/_Rt8-TabB-U

Don’t miss our other conversations Nancy Ross: https://gospeltangents.com/people/nancy-ross/

Gospel Tangents

Mormon Garments Radical, Seamless Origin The conversation travels back to Nauvoo in the 1840s, where Joseph Smith first commissioned seamstress Elizabeth Warren Allred to create a garment with as few seams as possible. Because standard 19th-century clothing relied heavily on seams to economically fit the shape of a body, Allred had to cut the unyielding muslin fabric three times before meeting his specifications. The authors debunk a popular historical myth: Joseph Smith was not simply adopting the “union suit,” as that style of single-piece underwear wasn’t developed until decades later. Instead, Smith’s design was actually a radical, progressive departure from the standard underwear of the time, anticipating later 19th-century dress and health reform movements that advocated for fewer restrictive layers. Making Sense of the Data: 12 Years and French Philosophy Transforming their massive 2014 survey into a book was a grueling 12-year process. Ross and Finnigan realized their raw data was far too messy and complex to neatly fit into a few journal articles. To make meaning of the thousands of intimate stories, they utilized intersectional theory (a branch of critical race theory) to understand how the disadvantages of racism and sexism impact wearers. They also drew heavily on French philosopher Michel Foucault’s concept of the “panopticon” to explore how surveillance and secrecy operate within Mormon culture, illustrating how members internalize institutional rules to monitor themselves and others. Despite utilizing heavy academic frameworks, the authors worked diligently to weave the theory naturally into the text, ensuring the book remains highly approachable and relatable for everyday readers. Politics of White Underwear One of the most striking sociological discussions in the episode centers on race. The authors explicitly identify the race of their survey respondents to highlight how garments interact differently with non-white bodies. For instance, wearing stark white underclothing makes the garments highly visible against darker skin tones. Furthermore, the historical design choices for garments were largely patterned after European body shapes, creating distinct physical challenges for people of color, such as Pacific Islanders, whose bodies may not easily conform to those specific cuts. The authors argue that because Mormon discourse heavily emphasizes purity and whiteness, the racial classification and physical realities of bodies wearing these garments make the practice inherently political. While their initial survey lacked a massive sample of people of color, their co-author Larissa Kano Kindred has since gathered data from 8,000 women—including a significant demographic of women of color—which will further explore these racial dynamics in future publications. Century of Evolution The episode wraps by looking at the slow arc of garment modernization. It wasn’t until 1923 that the church finally allowed for stretchy, knitted fabrics, shortened the sleeves to the elbow, and replaced string ties with buttons. Even then, as the church commissioned an internal report in the 1930s to suggest further popular changes, the long-requested move to sleeveless garments was left on the cutting room floor.

Don’t miss our other conversations Nancy Ross: https://gospeltangents.com/people/nancy-ross/

Gospel Tangents

0:00 History of Garments 10:32 How 3 Authors Write a Book 27:34 Racial Differences?

What do you think of the history? Had you considered all of these factors?

Presenting Taboo Research to LDS Leaders: What We Told the Church (Nancy Ross & Jessica Finnigan 1 of 4)

Rick B — Mon, 11 May 2026 07:30:32 -0400

I sat down with scholars Nancy Ross and Jessica Finnigan to discuss their taboo research on Mormon garments. They, along with Larissa Kanno Kindred, are the co-authors of the groundbreaking book Mormon Garments, Sacred and Secret. The deeply candid conversation pulls back the curtain on a historically taboo research topic within Latter-day Saint culture, exploring the complex intersections of theology, historical evolution, and the very real physical realities of wearing temple garments.

https://youtu.be/AIcIxpjl6qo

Don’t miss our other conversations Nancy Ross: https://gospeltangents.com/people/nancy-ross/

Gospel Tangents

What started as a small research project in 2014 quickly exploded when the authors’ survey garnered 4,500 responses in just one week. The authors were stunned by the heavy, unexpected stories pouring in, which highlighted a stark contrast between the experiences of men and women. While men generally reported lower physical costs, women detailed the immense, ongoing physical toll associated with wearing garments day and night through various stages of life.

Medical Reality of “Pads and Gore”

The authors frankly discuss how the required underclothing frequently traps heat and moisture, disrupting the body’s natural pH. This environment contributes to severe medical issues for some women, including chronic yeast infections, urinary tract infections (UTIs), and in extreme cases, precancerous lesions. Managing menstruation, pregnancy, and nursing while wearing garments often creates a difficult “mess,” yet women expressed immense guilt over taking them off, even when their doctors explicitly begged them to stop wearing the garments at night for health reasons.

Silence, Surveillance, and Strictness

Ross and Finnigan explain that the institutional silence surrounding garments created a dangerous void. Because there was no official guidance for biological realities, the void was typically filled by the most demanding, conservative voices in the community. Women were left navigating complicated, unofficial rules—such as whether it was acceptable to wear regular underwear underneath their garments to hold period products in place. Furthermore, the surveillance of other people’s underwear practices is deeply normalized within the culture, adding psychological pressure. The authors also noted that for individuals experiencing doubt, the garments often shifted from being a symbol of faith to a psychological tool of institutional control.

Opening the Door for Change

Despite receiving pushback from the community for discussing the topic, the authors actually presented their findings directly to the LDS church’s correlation research division to advocate for women’s gynecological health. Recently, there have been very positive developments, including new handbook updates that explicitly allow bishops to grant medical accommodations. Additionally, the church has introduced much-needed modernizations like half-slips, full slips, and period garments. By breaking the silence, the authors hope their work will validate the varied bodily experiences of women in the church and make the practice of wearing garments much kinder and more flexible for everyone.

0:00 Meet Nancy & Jessica 1:44 Are Garments Taboo? 5:27 Presenting to LDS Leadership? 9:20 Gender Differences with Garments

Don’t miss our other conversations Nancy Ross: https://gospeltangents.com/people/nancy-ross/

Gospel Tangents

Why No Children for Joseph Smith’s Plural Wives (Rick B)

Rick B — Fri, 08 May 2026 07:40:13 -0400

No Children for Joseph Smith? Joseph Smith’s plural wives One of the most frequent arguments raised by skeptics of Joseph Smith’s polygamy is the “fertility paradox.” While Joseph Smith fathered several biological children with his first wife, Emma, there are zero verified offspring from his estimated 30 to 40 plural marriages. DNA testing on suspected plural children has continuously ruled out Joseph as the father in every known case. Does this lack of physical evidence prove his plural marriages were non-sexual? According to a statistical analysis by Rick Bennett and a research team, the absence of children is not a biological impossibility, but rather a predictable outcome of history, biology, and law. https://youtu.be/Zz6BpX2wZd0 Statistical Models of Probability Bennett, alongside a team that included OBGYN Dr. Joseph Stanford, built four statistical models to determine the mathematical probability of Joseph Smith having zero children with his plural wives. These models factored in female ovulation cycles and historical documentation of Smith’s whereabouts, assuming no birth control was used:

Restricted & Low Models: Assuming very infrequent relations and excluding teenagers and already-married women, the probability of zero children sits between 22% and 47%. Bennett equates this to a coin flip or rolling a double in Monopoly, making zero children a statistically unsurprising outcome.
Medium (Consensus) Model: Assuming one or two encounters around the time of the sealing for a broader group of wives, the probability of zero children drops to roughly 9% to 13%.
High Model: Only when assuming large possible historical encounters across 37 women does the probability of zero children become statistically microscopic (around 0.03%).

Biological Factors and 19th-Century Demographics A significant reason for the lack of children stems from the demographic makeup of Joseph’s plural wives. At least five women were post-menopausal (over age 47) and 11 were “polyandrous” wives already married to other men. Furthermore, several brides were teenagers. Interestingly, poorer nutrition and rigorous physical labor in the 19th century delayed a woman’s first period (menarche) until an average age of 17, meaning many of the youngest wives were likely prepubescent and physically infertile at the time of their sealings (See Dan Vogel’s presentation.) Contraception and the Concept of “Quickening” If the High Model is accurate and sexual relations were frequent, Bennett notes that the Nauvoo community had widespread access to birth control. Popular texts from the 1830s heavily circulated knowledge about methods like the sponge, withdrawal, and highly acidic douching to prevent pregnancies. Additionally, 19th-century medical and Mormon theological consensus believed that a soul did not enter a fetus until “quickening” (around 20 weeks.) Because of this, early herbal interventions used to “restore the menses” were viewed simply as regulating the female body, rather than as abortion or sin. Legal and Theological Survival Ultimately, concealing pregnancies was an absolute necessity for survival. In Illinois, bigamy and adultery were felonies heavily penalized by fines, whipping, and imprisonment. Under the law, a child would serve as incontrovertible physical proof of illicit cohabitation, inviting immediate legal prosecution and mob violence. To avoid exposure, the theology of plural marriage subtly shifted. While originally grounded in an “Abrahamic” mandate to multiply and raise up seed on earth, the practice pivoted to a “Melchizedek” order. This new paradigm was focused on creating secret, dynastic priestly linkages for eternal salvation in the afterlife, entirely bypassing the legal dangers of earthly procreation. In short, the absence of children in Nauvoo polygamy is not a historical impossibility, but a reality forcefully shaped by 19th-century logistics, biology, and the heavy anvil of American law. Don’t miss my previous presentation! 0:00 Introduction to Rick 7:01 Fertility Paradox 8:34 Plural Wives History 15:18 Biology of Pregnancy 17:35 Grouping the Wives 22:17 Pregnancy Results 25:09 Knowledge of Birth Control/Abortion in 19th Century 30:31 Types of Contraception in Nauvoo 34:08 Quickening 36:20 Life Begins at Conception? 37:37 Mormon Market for Abortifacients 39:24 Theology Behind Lack of Children 40:23 Legal Reasons to Avoid Pregnancy 47:10 Theological Pivot 50:35 Conclusion Why 0 Children Not Unusual 51:58 Q&A Why Not Accept Joseph Wasn’t Polygamist? 53:19 Is Eliza Manwaring a Plural Wife? 58:43 Pushing Back on Certain Claims 1:01:27 RLDS Missions to Utah 1:03:58 Temple Implications for Rejecting Polygamy 1:06:24 Can temple sealings be non-sexual? 1:07:44 Is there anything wrong with Ugo Perego’s DNA Tests? 1:10:28 Is it reasonably possible Joseph had no children? 1:14:58 Don Bradley’s Theory on Legalizing Polygamy? 1:17:18 Dynastic Sealings to Create Ethnic Group 1:19:50 Why are both polygamy and temple ceremonies secret? 1:33:51 Sheep & Goat condoms 1:35:01 Older Male Fertility/Young & Old Female Fertility 1:38:49 Multi-Purpose Temples 1:44:19 Why Menarche Later in 19th century 1:47:43 Jacob 2:30-Why no children is Plausible

How to Have Faith/Trust Crisis Conversation

Rick B — Sun, 03 May 2026 23:41:48 -0400

Navigating a “Faith/Trust Crisis”: Empathy, Communication, and Finding Your Pace We dive deep into the complexities of faith journeys, exploring how to better communicate with loved ones and how to navigate church activity on your own terms. What advice do you have in a faith/trust crisis conversation?

https://youtu.be/uY_5UONNykI

Reframing the “Faith Crisis” Drawing from Jeff Strong’s new book, Torn, I think we should reframe the common “faith crisis” as a “trust crisis.” Why do members leave the Church? While Jana Riess’s statistically reliable research indicates that most people leave simply because they lose interest or marry a non-member, Strong’s study suggests that church history is actually the primary driver for those who intentionally disaffect. Regardless of the reasons, this wave of disaffiliation—which Elder Marlin K. Jensen once likened to the highest period of apostasy since Kirtland—requires navigating complex mixed-faith dynamics. Strategies for Conflict Resolution To help families and couples navigate a trust crisis, here are some powerful conflict resolution techniques designed to foster empathy and minimize defensiveness:

Share emotions over intellect: Fostering true empathy requires sharing specific emotions and physical sensations (e.g., “I feel pressure in my chest”) rather than over-intellectualizing, which often leads to disconnection.
True empathy does not require agreement: You can fully understand how someone arrived at their feelings based on their unique background without agreeing with their position.
Use “and” instead of “but”: Using the word “but” can be invalidating to the other person, whereas “and” leaves room for both perspectives.
The “One Partner, One Complaint, One Day” Rule: To prevent blame-shifting, only one person gets to bring up an issue per day. The talking partner must use non-critical language, and the listening partner is only allowed to use phrases like, “I hear you. I understand. And I’m listening.”
Take an immediate timeout: After the complaint is made, the listening partner should take a timeout (up to 24 hours) to calm their nervous system and avoid a defensive trauma response.
The Empathy Flip: When formulating a response, write it down and ask: Is it kind? Is it loving? Is it respectful? Imagine how you would feel receiving that exact response, and revise it if it sounds triggering.

Ultimately, the goal is to consistently fight to understand your partner rather than fighting to be understood. Even if a loved one ultimately chooses to step away from the Church, it is important to trust the Atonement and recognize that they will remember your ability to keep loving them. Returning to Church on Your Own Terms A question from a 49-year-old listener with autism, “I Love Christ,” said he wants to return to Church but finds the two-hour block completely draining. What advice would you give? I offered advice for anyone feeling overwhelmed by church activity:

Take breaks and ease into it: If church is stressing you out, it’s perfectly fine to step out or make your own personal study out of the time.
Do what you enjoy: Bring a book to read during class, or hang out in the hallway to socialize about something else if that makes the experience more enjoyable.
Don’t take everything literally: When faced with difficult scriptural or historical narratives, remember that not everything needs to be viewed through a strictly literal lens.
Give and expect grace: It can be frustrating to sit through lessons that feel overly simplistic or lack nuance, but it is vital to offer grace to those at different levels of spiritual maturity, and to help teach them to give you grace in return.

Is faith crisis still a problem? What advice do you have?

Why RLDS Finances are STILL in Trouble (John Hamer 6 of 6)

Rick B — Wed, 29 Apr 2026 07:40:15 -0400

The Community of Christ has sold the Kirtland Temple and several Nauvoo properties to the LDS Church for a jaw-dropping $200 million. But RLDS finances are still shaky! That money is only expected to keep the church afloat for about five years. Historian John Hamer joins us to explain why he thinks the deal could have been much better, why he’s disappointed there are still no openly gay apostles, and to share his brutally honest thoughts on Steven Veazey’s leadership. Stick around—this conversation pulls no punches.

John is the co-author of Scattering of the Saints: Schism Within Mormonism.

https://youtu.be/E5KnJviUlQM

Don’t miss our other episodes with John Hamer! https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-hamer/

Gospel Tangents

Deep Dive into the Kirtland Temple Sale & Path Forward

The recent sale of the Kirtland Temple sent shockwaves through the Latter Day Saint movement, and for the Community of Christ (formerly RLDS). It highlighted significant and ongoing financial challenges. John Hamer, a Community of Christ historian and Seventy, has offered candid insights into the church’s financial state, the controversial temple sale, and his hopes for the future.

Kirtland Temple Sale: A “Pittance” and a Crisis of Legitimacy

The sale of the Kirtland Temple to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) for less than $200 million was a deeply troubling event for many in the Community of Christ. John Hamer describes the price as a “pittance,” emphasizing that the property’s value, particularly in terms of “legitimacy” for the LDS Church, is “priceless” and far exceeds the sale amount. He provocatively suggests that the LDS Church, with its “hundreds of billions of dollars,” would not sell the temple for even $200 billion.

A major point of contention was the lack of transparency and consultation surrounding the sale. The decision was made “in secret,” without any input from the World Conference, the church’s “giant legislature”. This went against historical precedent, as a previous General Conference had determined that a revelation would be necessary to sell the Kirtland Temple, which had originally been built by revelation.

Hamer views the sale as a missed opportunity, stating that it was sold for “a third of what was necessary” for the church to achieve a “sustainable endowment for operations” (which he estimates would have required $600 million.) He suggested that a wealthy family foundation within the Community of Christ could have acquired the assets for the same price, held them as an investment, and then sold them to the LDS Church for a significantly higher amount later, but this option was not considered.

Broader RLDS Financial Woes and Leadership Accountability

The Kirtland Temple sale is just one symptom of deeper financial struggles within the Community of Christ:

Declining Tithing to Headquarters: Over the 20-year tenure of former prophet-president Steve Veazey, “tithing to headquarters… has gone down so precipitously,” with only around 6,000 members in the United States and Canada contributing to the world church. Hamer attributes this partly to members feeling their input is ignored when resolutions from the World Conference are ruled “out of order” by the executive leadership.
High Operating Costs: The Community of Christ headquarters apparatus costs approximately $2.5 million annually to operate, while its current income is less than $10 million.
Unsustainable Endowment: The endowment established to perpetually fund the Independence Temple was, in Hamer’s opinion, “invested not like a responsible investor would do” and became “not worth anything” during Veazey’s leadership. Unfunded pension obligations also contributed to the financial crisis.
Short-Term Fix: The $200 million from the Kirtland Temple sale is projected to sustain headquarters only until “up through 2030,” after which “anything goes”. This raises concerns about the future of other significant properties, such as the Community of Christ Auditorium (which Hamer argues functions as a temple for the church) and Graceland University, both of which face potential future sale or closure.

Hamer is critical of the leadership during this period, suggesting that Steve Veazey should have “take[n] responsibility for the fact that all of this financial loss schemes had happening on your watch and resign yourself”. He contrasts Veazey’s tenure, which he describes as “unmitigated decline,” with earlier presidents like Joseph Smith III and Fred M. Smith, who oversaw significant church growth and modernization.

New Leadership and Hope for a “Prophetic People”

Despite the financial challenges, Hamer expresses hope for the future under the new prophet-president, Stassi Cramm. He describes her ordination as “electric” and highlights her “incredible competence” and extensive experience as a presiding bishop and apostle.

Hamer believes that Cramm has the potential to lead the church toward necessary reforms. He advocates for her to establish a constitutional system for leadership oversight and responsible government, moving beyond a “fixed chain of succession” or a “prophetic monarchy”. This would allow the church to fully embrace its calling to be a “prophetic people,” where all members have input and leaders are accountable. He even suggests term limits for the president, such as a six-year term with the possibility of renewal. Such reforms, he argues, would retroactively legitimize Cramm and her successors by grounding leadership in the collective discernment of the church.

Furthermore, Hamer finds inspiration in the decentralized and innovative spirit within the Community of Christ:

Local congregations and mission centers, such as his “Beyond the Walls” ministry in Toronto, have demonstrated significant growth and outreach, attracting thousands of subscribers online, many of whom are not from a Restoration background.
Members in places like French Polynesia are taking initiative to create their own resources, like French-language pamphlets, rather than waiting for headquarters.

While the financial situation at headquarters remains a concern, Hamer is hopeful that Stassi Cramm’s leadership and the self-empowered efforts of the “prophetic people” within the Community of Christ can guide the church toward a meaningful and growing future.

Don’t miss our other episodes with John Hamer! https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-hamer/

Gospel Tangents

Are Big Money BYU Sports Compatible with LDS Church Mission?

Rick B — Tue, 28 Apr 2026 07:40:45 -0400

Are Big Money BYU Sports Compatible with LDS Church Mission? Dr. Matthew Bowman, co-author of “Game Changers,” zeroes in on the ultimate tension in modern collegiate sports: can you balance God, Mammon, and big money athletics? As BYU integrates into the lucrative Big 12 conference, the historic values of amateurism are directly clashing with the pursuit of NBA stardom.

https://youtu.be/SZssRvBGiCM

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Don’t miss our other discussions with Matthew. https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman

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The Kevin Young Factor

While millions of dollars and family-friendly environments played a huge role in landing top recruit AJ Dybantsa, his third reason for choosing BYU was head coach Kevin Young. Young left a highly promising coaching career in the NBA to come to Provo, bringing invaluable professional connections with him. During a recruiting pitch, Young even pulled out his phone, called NBA superstar Kevin Durant—whom he coached in Phoenix—and handed the phone directly to Dybantsa. Young is explicitly selling recruits on his ability to get them to the NBA, cementing college sports as a professional stepping stone.

Cautionary Tale of Jimmer Fredette

Matt contrasts this new era of “one-and-done” recruits with the legacy of Jimmer Fredette. Bowman describes Fredette as a player built for the traditional amateur college game who was unfairly pushed into the modern “massive media industrial complex” that demands individual celebrity. Unlike Danny Ainge, who thrived by fitting into a cooperative team system and sharing the ball, Fredette was forced to carry the entire team on his back. This intense pressure to be a singular, massive celebrity ultimately did him a disservice when he reached the NBA, making him a cautionary tale of how modern sports media can chew players up.

God vs. Mammon on the Hardwood: Is this massive influx of money compatible with BYU’s mission?

Bowman argues there is no easy answer. On one hand, church leaders like Henry Eyring have previously expressed that a successful football team acts as a powerful missionary tool. On the other hand, the millions of dollars involved shift the focus away from the character-building, cooperative origins of the sport. Today, the game is increasingly about individual stardom and financial gain, causing significant tension with the university’s spiritual goals.

Will BYU Ever Drop Athletics?

Given this tension, a popular rumor suggests that future church leaders might eventually eliminate BYU’s sports programs entirely, mirroring the decision made years ago to drop athletics at Ricks College (now BYU-Idaho). However, Bowman believes this is highly unlikely. The financial momentum of BYU athletics is simply too powerful to stop. Between Big 12 television money and the sheer influence of massive donor groups—BYU’s NIL collective, the “Royal Blue,” is reportedly the second-largest in the country behind Kentucky—eliminating the sports programs would result in intense backlash from wealthy boosters.

Don’t miss our other discussions with Matthew. https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman

Gospel Tangents

Why AJ Dybantsa Picked BYU Over Everyone Else (Matt Bowman 3 of 4)

Rick B — Sat, 25 Apr 2026 12:47:28 -0400

Big Money, Big Changes, and Why AJ Dybantsa Picked BYU

AJ Dybantsa and just declared for the NBA draft. We discuss why AJ Dybantsa picked BYU. He’s likely top NBA prospect, and he is reportedly earning millions to play in Provo. Dr. Matthew Bowman, author of Game Changers, dives into the modern reality of college sports and its collision with BYU’s historical values. We explore the massive shifts brought about by NIL (Name, Image, and Likeness) deals and how BYU continues to rely on its unique religious culture to recruit top talent.

https://youtu.be/EGf8Tya3aQw

0:00 Why AJ Dybantsa Picked BYU 8:45 Protests Against BYU/Recruiting 15:27 Money, Religion, & Sports

Don’t miss our other discussions with Matthew. https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman

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The NIL Revolution and the End of the “Student-Athlete” For decades, the NCAA heavily enforced strict amateurism rules—sometimes to absurd lengths, such as penalizing a player for putting cream cheese on a bagel provided by a coach, or suspending players if a fan took them out to dinner. However, recent lawsuits, spearheaded by former players like Ed O’Bannon, have completely dismantled this restrictive system. Today, athletes can legally profit from their likeness and sign massive endorsement deals. Through BYU’s NIL collective “The Royal Blue,” as well as sponsorships like Crumbl Cookies, AJ Dybantsa is set to make around $5 million to play at BYU. More Than Just a Paycheck While the massive payday is undeniable, Dybantsa’s family stated they requested the exact same monetary offer from all the schools recruiting him—including heavyweights like Kansas and Arkansas—so that his final decision wouldn’t strictly be about the highest bidder. Ultimately, Dybantsa chose BYU because of its strong emphasis on family and its supportive environment. His parents, Ace and Chelsea, actually toured the campus first and were highly impressed by what they saw. This family-centric appeal isn’t just for players. Head coach Kevin Young left a highly promising NBA career trajectory to coach at BYU, specifically because the university environment offered a better work-life balance for his family, including not having to work on Sundays. Navigating Race and Religion on Campus let’s look at the complicated history of race in BYU athletics. During the Ernest Wilkinson era in the 1960s and 70s, the school faced federal investigations and intense protests—such as the Wyoming 14 incident—over its virtually all-white teams and the church’s racial priesthood ban. It wasn’t until the last decade that BYU fielded its first all-black starting five in basketball. Today, recruiting has shifted in fascinating ways. While BYU has historically struggled to recruit Black athletes due to the cultural difficulties of the Honor Code, the university is increasingly finding success by recruiting religious non-LDS players. Many Muslim athletes, for instance, find the Honor Code’s strict ban on alcohol perfectly aligned with their own faith. Dybantsa, whose parents have Catholic roots from the Congo and Jamaica, similarly found BYU’s faith-based environment appealing. Other religious players, like Eastern Orthodox athletes, have also explicitly praised the school for supporting their strong personal faith. The Struggle for BYU’s Soul As BYU competes in the Big 12, it faces a philosophical crossroads. Some Ivy League schools chose to stop chasing athletic scholarship money, allowing their sports programs to recede into purely amateur, educational endeavors. But BYU has taken a different path. The university is now grappling with the tension between its original religious mission and the modern reality of operating what critics call “professional teams with schools attached”. To dive deeper into the fascinating intersection of big money, faith, and the future of BYU athletics, catch the full episode on Patreon.com/GospelTangents!

Don’t miss our other discussions with Matthew. https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman

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Global Evolution of LDS Basketball

Rick B — Wed, 22 Apr 2026 12:08:46 -0400

If you think college basketball has changed drastically, wait until you hear about the Global Evolution of LDS Basketball. This happened before the introduction of millions of dollars in NIL deals. Wait until you hear the history of how the sport evolved at BYU and around the world. Dr. Matthew Bowman, co-author of “Game Changers: AJ Dybantsa, BYU, and the Struggle for the Soul of Basketball,” discusses the sport’s explosive, global, and highly controversial growth.

https://youtu.be/2jMkUTAVm6s

Don’t miss our other discussions with Matthew. https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman

Gospel Tangents

0:00 All-Church Basketball Championship 3:10 Olympic/International Basketball 9:37 Big Money Basketball at BYU 23:38 Krešimir Ćosić: Best at BYU?

If you think college basketball has changed drastically with the introduction of millions of dollars in NIL deals, wait until you hear the history of how the sport evolved at BYU and around the world. Dr. Matthew Bowman, co-author of Game Changers: AJ Dybantsa, BYU, and the Struggle for the Soul of Basketball, shifts the conversation from the Christian origins of the sport to its explosive, global, and highly controversial growth. The Golden Era of the All-Church Tournament Before March Madness dominated the spring, the All-Church basketball tournament was a massive cultural phenomenon. Flourishing after World War II, the tournament featured thousands of teams from wards all over the globe, with regional champions flying into Salt Lake City to compete in the finals at the Deseret Gymnasium. The tournament was so prestigious that Marion D. Hanks actually quit the University of Utah basketball team just to play in the All-Church tournament. The competition was incredibly fierce—wealthy members would even offer jobs and build houses to lure talented players to move into their wards to stack their local team roster. Hoops Diplomacy: Missionaries Take the Court Long before the controversial “baseball baptisms” of the 1960s, LDS missionaries were using basketball as a grassroots tool for international diplomacy. As Americans who had grown up playing the sport, missionaries arriving in places like Europe, Argentina, and Australia were often vastly superior to local club teams. Using the Protestant language of “muscular Christianity,” missionaries challenged local YMCA and national teams, using the games to break down anti-Mormon prejudices and build bridges. Sometimes, they were so good they ended up coaching or playing for national teams. Missionary Ralph Larson, for instance, stayed in Argentina and became a celebrity playing for the Argentine national team. The Battle for BYU’s Soul: Watts vs. Wilkinson As college basketball grew into a lucrative business, a massive ideological battle took place at BYU. On one side was university president Ernest Wilkinson, who fiercely believed in the pure amateur ideal. Wilkinson believed sports were strictly for the personal edification of current students; he despised the idea of athletic scholarships, recruiting players who didn’t fit the university’s academic mission, or bringing in non-LDS ringers. On the other side was legendary BYU basketball coach Stan Watts, who wanted to modernize the program and compete at the highest level. Watts pushed for scholarships, brought the fast break to BYU, and led the team to an NIT championship at Madison Square Garden. This massive victory brought immense publicity and booster money to the school, eventually paving the way for the massive Marriott Center to be built. The Original AJ Dybantsa: Kresimir Cosic Ultimately, Stan Watts’ vision for a modern, competitive basketball program won out over Wilkinson’s strict amateurism, culminating in the arrival of Kresimir Cosic. Arguably the greatest player in BYU history, Cosic was an incredibly gifted 6’11” forward from Yugoslavia who played with the ball-handling skills of a modern guard. Cosic was not LDS and didn’t even know BYU was a religious school when he decided to come. He met a Finnish BYU player at a European tournament, defected during a game in Italy, hopped in a cab, and flew to New York, calling Coach Watts from the airport to announce his arrival. Cosic was so talented he was drafted into the NBA twice, but turned it down to return to his home country. He eventually embraced the LDS faith enthusiastically, forever changing the trajectory of BYU’s basketball program and proving that international, non-LDS talent could thrive in Provo. To hear more about the dark history of the NCAA’s “student-athlete” myth, Kresimir Cosic’s legendary career, and the modern implications for stars like AJ Dybantsa, check out the full episode on Patreon!

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Why Every LDS Church Has Basketball Court (Matthew Bowman 1 of 4)

Rick B — Mon, 20 Apr 2026 01:15:09 -0400

If you’ve ever stepped inside a Latter-day Saint meetinghouse, you likely noticed almost every LDS Church has basketball court. But have you ever wondered why basketball became the unofficial sport of the church?

Dr. Matthew Bowman, the Howard W. Hunter Chair of Mormon Studies at Claremont Graduate University discussed his new book, Game Changers: AJ Dybantsa, BYU, and the Struggle for the Soul of Basketball, which he co-authored with BYU alum Wayne LeCheminant. Their fascinating conversation peeled back the historical layers of basketball, revealing that the sport was intentionally designed to promote religious virtue/

https://youtu.be/5K58pElo0CA

0:00 Why Basketball is a Christian Sport 9:10 BYU Banned Football? 12:35 Why LDS Church Adopts Basketball

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Invention of a “Christian” Sport

While many fans know that James Naismith invented basketball using peach baskets in Springfield, Massachusetts, few realize that Naismith explicitly designed basketball to produce “Christian gentlemen”.

Naismith was a frustrated minister working at a YMCA training school during the dead of winter. His students were bored with indoor calisthenics, but it was too cold for outdoor sports. To keep them active, Naismith created basketball, drawing heavily on the popular 19th-century concept of “muscular Christianity,” which taught that developing a healthy body was just as important as developing a healthy soul.

Unlike other popular sports of the era, Naismith structured basketball around self-sacrifice and fellowship. He believed baseball was too individualistic, focused largely on the isolated duel between pitcher and batter. By contrast, basketball was designed as a game of unending cooperation. The earliest rules only allowed passing or shooting—no dribbling—forcing players to subordinate their individual egos for the good of the team.

Civilized Alternative to Football

In the 1890s and early 1900s, football was wildly popular but incredibly violent. Without modern helmets or pads, the sport was literally killing dozens of players each season. In 1905 alone, 18 football players died, leading multiple states to consider banning the sport entirely.

Because of this brutality, the board of trustees at Brigham Young Academy (now BYU) voted to ban football in 1901. Basketball was championed as the perfect, civilized alternative. It allowed for vigorous physical activity without the deadly consequences, aligning perfectly with the moral framework desired by religious leaders.

LDS Church Has Basketball Court

As the LDS Church looked to expand out of Utah and into urban centers across the country, basketball offered a logistical advantage. While baseball required large outdoor fields, a basketball court could easily be placed inside a church building right in the middle of a city.

During the presidency of Joseph F. Smith, the Church built the massive Deseret Gym in Salt Lake City (where the Conference Center stands today), featuring multiple basketball courts. By the 1920s, the Church formally recommended that wards build “recreation halls” or “amusement halls” under the same roof as their worship spaces.

The primary goal of these courts was to attract the youth. Church leaders believed that by offering basketball, they could bring young men off the streets and into the Church building. Because young men were priesthood holders necessary for the formation of new wards, keeping them engaged in wholesome, cooperative activities was seen as crucial to the church’s growth.

To hear the full interview and learn more about how modern money is reshaping BYU’s basketball legacy, check out the full episode on Gospel Tangents!

What’s Next?

Basketball’s role in the Church evolved deeply throughout the 20th century, leading to massive All-Church tournaments and a prominent NCAA footprint at BYU. However, the landscape of college basketball is shifting. Today, athletes like BYU’s AJ Dybantsa are navigating an era of millions of dollars in NIL (Name, Image, and Likeness) money and “one-and-done” draft prospects—developments that past leaders like Ernest Wilkinson would likely have hated.

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Gospel Tangents

1147: Fascinating LDS Perspectives with Coptic Orthodox Easter Tradition (Rick B)

Rick B — Mon, 13 Apr 2026 00:20:34 -0400

Orthodox Easter this year was a week later than Western Christianity. I was able to take a unique journey into Orthodox Easter traditions and the historical resilience of early Christianity.

https://youtu.be/h8xYSNU9e6o

It was a fascinating experience to visit St. Mary’s Coptic Orthodox Church in Clearfield, Utah, after meeting a California member named Daniel Michalski. Unlike Western traditions, the Coptic Easter service is held on Saturday night and can last up to four hours, featuring a blend of English, Coptic, and Arabic chanting. One of the most striking rituals is the procession of the icon of Christ, which is buried in roses during Holy Week and then “resurrected” as the lights are turned on, accompanied by the unique sound of cymbals. Beyond the personal experience, we dove into the history of the Coptic Church, which split from Western Christianity in 451 AD following the Council of Chalcedon over complex theological debates regarding the nature of Christ.

This history is framed within a broader discussion of the early Christian era, moving from the movement’s roots as a persecuted sect to its establishment as the Roman state religion under Constantine. Most Mormons are familiar with the death and resurrection of Christ and Constatine’s ascension in the 4th century, but know little about history of Christianity in the centuries in between. I discussed various early factions, such as the Gnostics, who prioritized secret wisdom over the physical resurrection, with the orthodox view that eventually triumphed.

We also touched on the following key points:

LDS Perspectives: We emphasized the physical resurrection of Jesus, citing recent General Conference messages regarding the victory of the empty tomb.
Calendar Differences: The discrepancy between Western and Orthodox Easter dates were explained by the use of the Julian calendar versus the Gregorian calendar.
Coptic Practices: Insights into infant baptism by immersion, the practice of closed communion, and the fact that Coptic priests can be married are also highlighted.
Community Highlights: The episode concludes with a book giveaway of Holiness to the Lord and a teaser for a future discussion with Dr Matthew Bowman on the “Christian” roots of basketball.

Part 1: Personal Experience and the Coptic Orthodox Easter Service

0:00 – Introduction and Book Giveaway:
2:00 – Meeting Daniel Michalski:
5:00 – Attending the Coptic Service in Clearfield: attending a four-hour Saturday night Easter service, including observations on the small congregation and the use of English, Coptic, and Arabic.
10:00 – The Resurrection Ritual: An explanation of the dramatic liturgical moment where an icon of Christ is “resurrected” from a bed of roses, accompanied by chanting and cymbals.

Part 2: History of Early Christianity

15:00 – The Great Schism of 451: includes a discussion on the Council of Chalcedon and how a theological dispute over a preposition regarding the nature of Christ led the Coptic Church to split from Western Christianity.
19:00 – Historical Jesus and the Temple: The host analyzes the cleansing of the temple as a political act of subversion that directly led to Jesus’s execution.
23:00 – The Crucifixion and Gospel Narratives.
27:00 – Mechanics of Crucifixion.

Part 3: Early Factions and the Rise of Orthodoxy

29:00 – The Gnostics and Secret Wisdom, including a mention of the Gospel of Judas.
32:00 – Marcionites and the Canon:.
34:00 – Bishop Irenaeus and “Straight Thinking”: The origins of the term “Orthodox” and the establishment of the four-gospel rule.
37:00 – Eras of Roman Persecution: Christian martyrs, including the story of Perpetua.

Part 4: Constantine and the Modern Church

41:00 –Constantine Transformation.
45:00 – LDS Perspectives on Easter.
47:00 – Coptic Practices Explained.

Part 5: Conclusion and Teasers

53:00 – Book Giveaway Results.
54:00 – The Future of “Church Ball”: Upcoming interview about the Christian roots of basketball and the role of Mormon missionaries in spreading the sport.
56:00 – Calendar Discrepancies: explanation of why Orthodox Easter often falls on a different date due to the Julian vs. Gregorian calendars.

Did Early Temple Sealings Guarantee Heaven? (Jonathan Stapley 2018 interview)

Rick B — Sat, 11 Apr 2026 18:23:58 -0400

Did Early Temple Sealings Guarantee Heaven? Dr. Jonathan Stapley, an award-winning historian—and surprisingly, a PhD in carbohydrate chemistry discusses his Mormon History Association Best Book Award-winner, “The Power of Godliness: Mormon Liturgy and Cosmology.” This is a fascinating deep dive into how early Latter-day Saints understood priesthood, the lost history of female ritual healing, and how the church’s ordinances have evolved over time.

https://youtu.be/_tNWj8gupM0

0:00 Cosmological Priesthood 17:29 Mormon Women healing 31:36 Mormon Priestess 44:24 Dallin Oak: Women Have Priesthood! 53:21 Alternative Medicine 1:01:52 Baby Blessings 1:13:21 Temple Sealings 1:22:15 Armininianism vs Calvinism: Are Mormons Saved?

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Uncovering the Lost History of Mormon Liturgy: A Deep Dive into The Power of Godliness If you have ever been curious about the evolution of Mormon rituals, Dr. Jonathan Stapley offers a fascinating look into the archives. Stapley, a scientist by trade and a historian by passion, discusses his 2018 award-winning book, The Power of Godliness: A Mormon Liturgy and Cosmology. While Latter-day Saints rarely use the term “liturgy,” Stapley argues it is a tremendously powerful concept for framing the worship, rituals, and ordinances that construct the Mormon universe. Redefining the Priesthood: Ecclesiastical vs. Cosmological To make sense of historical shifts, Stapley introduces a vital framework that splits early Mormon priesthood into two distinct categories:

Ecclesiastical Priesthood: This represents the offices of the church (deacons, teachers, priests, elders, bishops, etc.).
Cosmological Priesthood: Developed in the Nauvoo Temple, this encompasses the “heaven on earth” structure where men and women act as kings, queens, priests, and priestesses.

While early church members viewed these liturgical structures as ways to channel the power of God, by the 20th century, standard church catechisms shifted to simply defining the priesthood as the literal power of God. Forgotten Era of Female Ritual Healing One of the most inspiring (and historically misunderstood) topics in the book is female ritual healing. In the 1800s, women were recognized healers who routinely performed anointings and blessed the sick. Joseph Smith explicitly stated this was entirely appropriate and a manifestation of God’s power. Stapley warns against the trap of “presentism”—the mistake of looking at history through the lens of modern definitions. Today, healing is classified as a priesthood ordinance, leading some to falsely assume that early women held ecclesiastical priesthood offices. Interestingly, the modern narrative shifted in a subtle but revolutionary 2014 General Conference sermon by Elder Dallin H. Oaks. Elder Oaks redefined the conversation by stating that because there is only one power of God, women who participate in the work of the church are wielding the authority of the priesthood in their callings, a massive linguistic and theological shift from previous decades. Lost Temple Rituals: Baptisms for Health and Temple Healers Modern LDS temple practices are highly streamlined, but they used to be vastly more diverse. Joseph Smith originally envisioned the temple as a place for literal physical healing.

Baptisms for Health: By the 1880s, baptisms for health were the single most common living ritual performed in temples. If you were feeling sick, you could make a pilgrimage to the temple to be baptized for your health.
Temple Healers: Pioneer temples featured dedicated temple healers. For example, Lucy Bigelow Young (one of Brigham Young’s wives) received the sick—sometimes brought in on beds—and healed them inside the St. George Temple.

These practices were ultimately discontinued in the 1920s under President Heber J. Grant, who reformed and shortened the liturgy to focus exclusively on salvific rituals. From “Cunning Folk” to Alternative Medicine Addressing the controversial topic of early Mormon “magic,” Stapley prefers the historical European term “cunning folk traditions.“ Cunning folk were local seers who found lost items, healed the sick, and battled witches. As belief in witches faded during the Enlightenment, cunning folk transitioned into botanical and herbal healers. Because Mormonism embraces an “open heaven” and the miraculous, early Saints were receptive to both priesthood blessings and these alternative cures. Stapley notes that this cultural DNA persists today; the modern LDS openness to complementary and alternative medicine (like energy healing or essential oils) functions similarly to the cunning folk traditions of the past. Evolution of Baby Blessings Unlike baptism, the baby blessing is not found in the Book of Mormon. In the early church, blessings often occurred on the 8th day after birth, evocative of the Old Testament tradition of circumcision. In early Mormon Missouri (Zion), the blessing was deeply communal: babies received the blessing so their names could be inscribed in the “book of remembrance” to secure a community inheritance. By the 20th century, the ritual’s focus became intensely entangled with fatherhood. In an effort to make fathers feel the power of their duty, modern church policy even evolved to allow fathers without temple recommends to stand in the blessing circle, hoping the experience might quicken them to repentance. Sealings Guarantee Heaven? Debate on “Perseverance” How permanent is a temple sealing? In early Mormonism, theology leaned heavily into “perseverance,” a concept akin to Calvinism, suggesting that once a family is sealed, they are permanently locked into the “network of heaven”. Early Saints believed that even if a child or spouse backslid into sin, their place in heaven remained, though they might have to suffer for their sins before being redeemed. However, faced with the reality of profound human wickedness (such as the actions of John D. Lee, Brigham Young’s adopted son who participated in a mass murder), church leaders realized a free pass to heaven couldn’t exist. Today, LDS teachings lean far closer to Arminianism and Protestant ideals, viewing the celestial kingdom as a conditional reward based on individual faithfulness rather than an unbreakable guarantee. Dr. Stapley’s framework ultimately allows believers and historians alike to explore Mormonism’s rich, dynamic past on its own terms, free from the constraints of present-day politics.

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Complex History of Race & LDS Temples (Jonathan Stapley 4 of 4)

Rick B — Sat, 11 Apr 2026 07:40:17 -0400

Dr. Jonathan Stapley tackles a tough topic: race & LDS Temples as we conclude his deep dive into Stapley’s award-winning book, Holiness to the Lord. We tackles some of the most complex historical topics surrounding Latter-day Saint temple worship, including the ideological shift away from plural marriage, the history of racial restrictions, and the profound religious work of caring for the dead.

https://youtu.be/ZIp-oSEBoGo

0:00 Trading Polygamy for Temple Work 3:58 Race & the Temple 16:21 Caring for the Dead

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Dr. Jonathan Stapley concludes his deep dive into his award-winning book, Holiness to the Lord. He tackles some of the most complex historical topics surrounding Latter-day Saint temple worship, including the ideological shift away from plural marriage, the history of racial restrictions, and the profound religious work of caring for the dead. Did Temple Work Replace Polygamy? Historian Dr. Richard E Bennett has previously argued that as the Church abandoned plural marriage, work for the dead stepped in as its replacement. Stapley agrees there is truth to this. Before 1890, regular temple attendance was incredibly rare; most early Latter-day Saints only went once in their lives for their own endowment and sealing. Because of this, 19th-century Saints typically viewed temple robes as “burial clothing,” since they saw it more often on deceased bodies than on living worshippers. However, following the 1890 Manifesto and Wilford Woodruff’s 1894 revelation on adoption, regular proxy labor radically transformed the Latter-day Saint experience. Temple attendance became a normative, regular practice, effectively replacing plural marriage as the core foundation of 20th-century Latter-day Saint identity construction. Segregation, Race & LDS Temples We also unpacked the complicated history of race & the temple. Early in the Church’s history, Black members did participate in temple ordinances: Elijah Abel was washed and anointed in the Kirtland Temple, Jane Manning James performed baptisms for the dead in the Endowment House, and historical records show that several previously enslaved women were endowed in the Salt Lake Temple. Tragically, as Jim Crow-era segregationist worldviews hardened in the 20th century, policies shifted. Stapley highlights research by Tanya Ryder showing a period where Black members could submit their family history to the temple but were required to have white proxies perform the actual baptisms. When asked if the temple restriction was instituted primarily to prevent interracial marriage, Stapley offers a nuanced historian’s view. While Brigham Young actively encouraged intermarriages between white settlers and Native Americans, he harbored intense opposition to Black and white intermarriage and procreation. Stapley notes that while Brigham Young’s racist views on intermarriage undeniably informed the temple ban, historians lack the specific documentation to conclusively prove it was the exact causal instigation. Debunking the 1979 “Satan” Film Myth Stapley also takes a moment to debunk a persistent rumor regarding the 1979 temple film. A popular story claims that the Church asked a dark-skinned or Polynesian actor to play Satan, but the actor protested the racist casting. Stapley explains that there is no good evidence for this event; the entire rumor stems from a single, unreliable third-hand source—a typed memory of a purported conversation. Caring for the Dead To conclude, Stapley reflects on one of the most resonant chapters of his book: the religious practice of caring for and dressing the dead. In modern society, the professionalization of medicine and funerals has largely insulated us from death. Stapley argues that the Latter-day Saint practice of dressing deceased loved ones in temple clothing provides an incredibly important religious outlet to process grief. Furthermore, this enduring ritual acts as a powerful symbol, signaling the believers’ incorporation into the priesthood as heavenly kings, queens, priests, and priestesses.

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Amazing Complex History of Women & Temple Sealings (Jonathan Stapley 3 of 4)

Rick B — Sun, 05 Apr 2026 07:40:10 -0400

Dr. Jonathan Stapley, author of Holiness to the Lord, dives deep into the complex history of women & temple sealings, the historical evolution of the sealing ceremony, the persistent changes to the endowment, and the shifting architectural purposes of Latter-day Saint temples. https://youtu.be/9GLMfnUxqdU

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Complex History of Women & Temple Sealings: Egalitarian Sealings? When examining the history of the sealing ceremony, Stapley points out a stark contrast between Joseph Smith’s era and Brigham Young’s era. The earliest known sealing text, written by Joseph Smith in 1842, was much more egalitarian than the Nauvoo Temple text later published by Orson Pratt in 1852, which incorporated Brigham Young’s views subordinating women. While the Church has made significant revisions since 1990 to reintroduce more egalitarian language, certain disparities between men and women remain. Dilemma for Widows A poignant example of this is the church’s current sealing policy regarding widows. Before the 1890s, women were regularly sealed to multiple men sequentially, but by the 1920s, a rule was formalized restricting living women to a single sealed husband. Curiously, in the 1960s, the church changed the rules to allow deceased women to be sealed to multiple men to fix family history roadblocks, yet the restriction remained for living women. This leaves many modern widows feeling anxious or hesitant to remarry, and Stapley notes that the current theological answer regarding how these complex marriages will be resolved in the afterlife is simply, “we don’t know.” Debunking the 4-8-Hour Endowment Myth Stapley also pushes back against modern fundamentalist assumptions that the original Nauvoo endowment was a massive, 4-8-hour ordeal. In reality, historical records from William Clayton indicate that the Nauvoo endowment took roughly 90 minutes. When the ritual did take longer, it was often because every participant was acting as a main character, and there were limited temple workers to facilitate the liturgy. Stapley emphasizes that the endowment has never been static; it has always been iterating. Significant milestones include the formalization of temple worker roles in the Endowment House, the writing down of the liturgy and introduction of proxy endowments in the St. George Temple, Wilford Woodruff’s introduction of white pants for men, and the monumental 20th-century shift from live acting to film presentation. Assembly Rooms and the 24 Temples of Zion We also explore how the physical space of the temple has changed. The Kirtland Temple was a semi-public building that hosted private, charismatic “solemn assemblies” for priesthood officers. Later pioneer temples—like Manti, St. George, and Salt Lake—were built with massive assembly halls that are rarely used today, rendering them “architectural anachronisms.” Finally, Stapley addresses Joseph Smith’s famous “Plat of Zion” which outlined 24 temples for the city of Independence. He cautions against comparing these to modern temples, explaining that in the 1830s, the term “temple” was used aspirationally to describe multi-purpose civic buildings, not the private liturgical spaces we know today. Ultimately, the church’s theology simply outgrew the 24-temple model. 0:00 Sealing More Egalitarian? 13:33 Evolution of Endowment Ceremony 24:48 Temples Used to Be Public 35:27 24 Temples

Inside LDS Temple Ceremonies (Jonathan Stapley 2 of 4)

Rick B — Fri, 03 Apr 2026 11:00:00 -0400

Dr Jonathan Stapley takes us inside LDS temple ceremonies, including the Initiatory, Endowment, and Sealing ceremony changes over the years. Was the sealing ceremony more egalitarian under Joseph Smith than Brigham Young? Check out our conversation….

https://youtu.be/uOdluwXxYVQ

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Dr. Jonathan Stapley, author of Holiness to the Lord, explores the fascinating historical evolution of temple ordinances, clarifying the differences between early Kirtland practices, the introduction of Masonic elements in Nauvoo, and the shifting language of the sealing ceremony. Myth of the “OG” Endowment When asked about fundamentalist groups attempting to reconstruct an “original” eight-hour endowment complete with wrist-and-ankle-length garments, Stapley states bluntly that a static, “Platonic ideal” of the endowment never existed. Because the early liturgy was transmitted orally, the ceremony has continually adapted and changed from its very inception. It wasn’t until the Wilford Woodruff era in the St. George Temple that the endowment ceremony was finally written down. Stapley pushes back against the idea that changes to the wording prove apostasy, noting that Brigham Young continuously made changes to the ritual in Nauvoo, the Council House, the Endowment House, and finally the St. George temple. LDS Temple Ceremonies: Kirtland vs. Nauvoo Ordinances Stapley clarifies a common historical misconception: in the Kirtland era, the washing and anointing was a completely separate event from the “endowment”.

Washing and Anointing: This was an annual ritual limited strictly to male priesthood officers, purposely patterned after the biblical consecration of ancient Israelite priests.
The Kirtland Endowment: This was a solemn assembly where participants feasted on the Lord’s supper, washed each other’s feet, and experienced charismatic spiritual outpourings. It wasn’t until the Nauvoo era that these concepts merged and expanded to include all men and women. Furthermore, Stapley notes that there is no compelling historical data to support the idea that the modern temple liturgy is hidden within the text of the Book of Mormon as Don Bradley has suggested.

Masonic “Social Technology” In 1842, Joseph Smith participated in a Masonic initiation, a fraternity ritual that used dramatic progression, hand clasps, and promises of secrecy to tell the mythical story of Hiram Abiff, the builder of Solomon’s temple. Stapley explains that Joseph Smith borrowed this Masonic “social technology”—the structural framework of the ritual—but used it to tell a completely different story. Instead of Masonic lore, Latter-day Saints used this interactive format, alongside biblical priestly clothing, to teach the plan of salvation, including the creation, the fall, and humanity’s return to the presence of God. The Evolving Sealing Ceremony The episode also reveals fascinating details about the first sealing ceremonies. The earliest known text is an 1842 polygamous sealing ceremony written by Joseph Smith for the Whitney family, which is currently available on the Joseph Smith Papers website. When historians compare this 1842 text to a Nauvoo Temple sealing ceremony published by Orson Pratt in 1852, they find substantive differences. According to Stapley, the 1842 ceremony under Joseph Smith was notably more egalitarian, while the later Nauvoo versions incorporated Brigham Young’s views on the subordination of women. (To be fair, Jonathan stated there is no such thing as egalitarian in the 19th century, just varying levels.) Ultimately, Stapley reminds us that early Latter-day Saints simply did not value word-for-word repetition the way modern members do; even foundational prayers, like the sacrament and baptismal prayers, were often extemporized during Joseph Smith’s lifetime.

Don’t miss our other discussions with Jonathan. https://gospeltangents.com/people/jonathan_stapley

Gospel Tangents

0:00 Sealing More Egalitarian? 13:33 Evolution of Endowment Ceremony 24:48 Temples Used to Be Public 35:27 24 Temples

Best Temple Prep Ever! (Jonathan Stapley)

Rick B — Mon, 30 Mar 2026 02:05:45 -0400

Chapter 1 is the best temple prep book ever. I sat down with Jonathan Stapley, an award-winning historian to discuss his newest book, Holiness to the Lord: Latter Day Saint Temple Worship. During the show, Stapley was even surprised he won the “Best Temple Book of 2025” award! I thi

https://youtu.be/1bBMcqgKKdY

0:00 Award Winning Author on LDS Temple Worship 3:20 Is Temple Worship Taboo? 10:14 Required Reading for Temple Prep 17:52 Kirtland Temple Period Demystifying the Temple Experience/Temple Prep For many, the LDS temple can feel like a secretive or taboo topic, but Stapley’s new book aims to change that. He designed his first chapter to be a transparent walkthrough for anyone preparing for the temple. It covers the practical, step-by-step process of going to the temple, from talking to a local bishop and purchasing garments to making an appointment and participating in the ceremonies. Stapley explains that this level of openness is highly beneficial. Not only does it help outsiders understand the faith’s practices, but it also gives practicing Latter-day Saints a much-needed framework for discussing the temple constructively, helping them avoid being unhelpfully “cagey” or silent about their worship. Furthermore, Stapley pushes back against critics who use the private nature of the temple as a “dig” against the church, noting that the creation of sacred, “insider/outsider” boundary-maintaining spaces is a common practice across many world religions and ancient Christianity. The Myth of the “OG” Endowment When it comes to the temple’s core ceremony—the endowment—Stapley makes a striking historical observation: there is no such thing as an “OG” (original) endowment. Before temples, bishops, or apostles were even fully established in the church, Joseph Smith taught that the saints would be “endowed with power from on high,” a concept pulled directly from the biblical books of Luke and Acts. Originally, this endowment was a charismatic experience rather than a set ritual. Over time, these biblical concepts were ritualized and performed, constantly adapting to the needs of the church. Because the ceremony was initially transmitted orally, Stapley notes that the ritual has continually changed and adapted throughout its entire history. He directly challenges fundamentalist attempts to reconstruct a supposedly “original” 8-hour endowment, stating that such a platonic ideal never actually existed, and that procedural changes are a historical reality, not proof of apostasy as fundamentalists allege. A “Golden Era” for Latter-day Saint History Stapley shared that we are currently living in a “golden era” of Latter-day Saint historical research. Compared to a couple of decades ago when archive access felt like the “wild west,” there is now sustained openness and transparency, with massive resources like the Brigham Young papers available freely online. While the church still naturally redacts specific details about the temple ceremonies from third-party historical documents, Stapley isn’t bothered by this. Instead of getting bogged down in reconstructing “ticky tack” changes to the ceremonies, he is far more interested in the bigger picture: understanding what these sacred rituals actually do in the lives, minds, and communities of the believers who participate in them. Have you read his book? What are your impressions?

Polygamy Conference Controversies & Recap 2026

Rick B — Mon, 23 Mar 2026 03:42:06 -0400

Journal of Mormon Polygamy Conference Here is a recap of the major highlights, controversies, and presentations. https://youtu.be/IekJUmx5qK4 The 1886 John Taylor Revelation I was part of a panel discussing the 1886 John Taylor revelation, which was recently released by the Church History Library. This revelation was received around September 27, 1886, while President Taylor was in hiding from U.S. government officials due to the Edmunds Act. The original manuscript was discovered written in pencil in Taylor’s desk by his son, Apostle John W. Taylor, while settling his estate in 1887. The interpretation of this document causes a major split:

The Fundamentalist View: Fundamentalists view the 1886 revelation as an unequivocal mission statement. Because the text states, “I have not revoked this law nor will I,” they interpret this to mean the practice of plural marriage can never be suspended by earthly authority, rendering the 1890 and 1904 manifestos invalid.
The Mainstream LDS View: Mainstream theology focuses on the word revoked, viewing it as a commandment that can be suspended. Pointing to D&C 132:7, mainstream members argue that only one man on earth holds the keys of the sealing priesthood at a time, meaning the 1886 revelation grants no independent authority to individuals to perform plural marriages without the current Church President’s authorization.

During the Q&A, I stated what I thought was an uncontroversial fact: a major difference between D&C 132 and the 1886 revelation is that section 132 was canonized, and the 1886 text was not. Surprisingly, this drew audible pushback and eye daggers from the audience. A Room Full of “Revisionists” I estimate that 90% of the attendees at the conference were “polygamy revisionists”—individuals who believe Joseph Smith never practiced polygamy and that D&C 132 is a forgery. For many in attendance, their opposition to polygamy seems rooted in the moral belief that the practice is inherently wrong, leading to a strong desire to see section 132 decanonized. This dynamic created an ironic parallel at the conference: both polygamy revisionists and fundamentalists are currently facing excommunication from the mainstream Church for their opposing beliefs regarding Joseph Smith and plural marriage. Stylometry, D&C 132, and “Statistical Noise” One of the most highly anticipated presentations for me was from Ethan Lloyd, who recently published a paper utilizing stylometry (wordprint analysis) to argue that the plural marriage verses of D&C 132 do not match Joseph Smith’s established voice. His study was presented as a direct counter to a recent Interpreter article by Fields et al., which used similar methods to argue that Joseph was the author. As a “math nerd” and statistician, I have serious issues with wordprint studies. While Lloyd rightly points out methodological flaws in the Interpreter study—such as artificially inflating their data by “bootstrapping” short texts—I believe the entire premise of stylometry is flawed. Here is why stylometry falls short on D&C 132:

Tone vs. Function Words: Lloyd argue that Joseph’s normal revelations have a “pastoral” tone, while D&C 132 sounds “judicial” and harsh. However, stylometry measures invisible, high-frequency function words (like the, and, of, unto.) You cannot use the frequency of the word “and” to objectively prove a shift from a pastoral to a judicial tone.
Lack of Statistical Variance: In Principal Component Analysis (PCA), which Lloyd used, you typically want your variables to explain 80% to 90% of the variance in the data. In Lloyd’s study, the variance explained was only in the 15% to 30% range. When that much variance is left unexplained, you aren’t finding a definitive signal or voiceprint”—you are just measuring statistical noise.

Ultimately, I agree with historian John Hamer: wordprint studies generally just reflect the bias of the author. Other Conference Highlights

Helen Mar Kimball: Michelle Stone gave a fascinating historiography arguing that Helen Mar Kimball never actually admitted to being a plural wife of Joseph Smith. She was never considered a possible plural wife until the 1930s “Jubilee letters” surfaced. Mainstream historians generally agree Helen was sealed to Joseph at age 14, but Stone’s paper disputes this.
The Moral Argument: Connor Boyack received a standing ovation for a presentation making a moral and theological case against concubines and polygamy.
Fundamentalist Representation: Major credit goes to David Patrick and others from the fundamentalist branch called Christ’s Church for proudly presenting their beliefs in the 1886 revelation to an audience that was overwhelmingly hostile to the practice of polygamy.

Lingering Question for Revisionists I’ll leave you with the same question I posed at the end of the episode regarding the revisionist movement. If you believe D&C 131 and 132 are forgeries that should be thrown out, how do you justify monogamous temple sealings? What scriptures justify monogamous sealings? William V Smith argues the doctrines of eternal monogamous sealings and plural marriage are so deeply intertwined within the text of section 132 that you cannot simply cut out the polygamy verses and keep the sealing power intact. If you remove section 132 entirely, where is the doctrinal foundation for temple work? What do you think of the 2nd Journal of Mormon Polygamy Conference?

Why Janice Allred StaysWhy I Stay: Three Decades in the Pews as an Excommunicated Member

Rick B — Mon, 16 Mar 2026 02:29:30 -0400

Janice Allred was excommunicated just over 30 years ago, but still attends the LDS Church!!! Why? She will talk about why she stays, and offer advice to others on how to stay if they want to. We’ll discuss how it affects her family, her testimony, and we’ll even dive into why current polygamy revisionists are getting into trouble with LDS Church leaders. Check out our conversation!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O8H-QXlDPw

Why I Stay: Three Decades in the Pews as an Excommunicated Member

What does it look like to remain dedicated to a faith community that has formally cast you out? For Janice Allred, a “philosophical theologian” who was excommunicated in 1995, the answer is found in showing up every Sunday for over thirty years. Allred, the sister of fellow scholar Margaret Toscano, was disciplined primarily for her writings on “God the Mother“ and her critiques of church authority, yet she remains a fixture in her local ward.

Why Stay?

When asked the “Sunstone question” of why she stays, Allred’s first response is simple: “Because I want to”. Her deeper motivations are rooted in her identity as a follower of Jesus Christ, noting that He encouraged His followers to meet together often to strengthen one another. Furthermore, she feels a profound connection to the revelations of Joseph Smith, including the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants, and wants to worship where those texts are accepted as scripture.

From Pariah to Participant

The road has not been easy. For the first five to ten years after her excommunication, Allred describes being treated like a “pariah” and was largely ignored by her ward members. She recalls a poignant moment five years in when a fellow ward member simply said “Hello,” and she nearly broke into tears because so few had spoken to her during that time.

The turning point was a house fire. While the community struggled to know how to respond to her theological dissent, they knew exactly how to help a family in a physical crisis. Today, she is a regular participant in Sunday school and Relief Society, though she is denied the sacrament, which she describes as the hardest part of her experience.

The “Observer” Strategy

Allred offers a unique perspective for those struggling with their faith: be an observer. She navigates the tension of hearing things she disagrees with—such as the “adulation” of church leadership or the Proclamation on the Family—by taking a step back and viewing the meetings through a sociological or theological lens. She does not feel the need to agree with everything said from the pulpit to feel that she belongs to the “invisible church” of true followers of Christ.

A Different Kind of Fundamentalism

Perhaps most surprising is Allred’s stance as a “polygamy revisionist.” Through her theological studies, she became convinced that Joseph Smith neither taught nor practiced polygamy, and she views Section 132 as a later forgery or a text contrary to the gospel. While this view challenges the lineage of authority from Brigham Young, she maintains that her primary goal is seeking what is true according to her own conscience and inspiration.

Janice Allred’s journey is a testament to self-authorship in faith. She remains a “member of the ward” in spirit, even if not on the records, proving that for some, the community of Christ is worth the discomfort of dissent.

What do you think of Janice’s persistence for 30+ years?

LDS-Temple Lot Differences (Daniel Malone 3 of 3)

Rick B — Sun, 15 Mar 2026 07:30:39 -0400

LDS-Temple Lot Differences: Unique Priesthood Structure

We’re going to discuss LDS-Temple Lot differences. Unlike the LDS Church, the Church of Christ (Temple Lot) does not divide its priesthood into Aaronic and Melchizedek branches. Furthermore, they do not have the office of High Priest, believing that Jesus Christ was and remains the last High Priest.

https://youtu.be/WvM-kU-YDsI

Don’t miss our other discussions about Hedrickites. https://gospeltangents.com/denominations/hedrickites

Gospel Tangents

Their active priesthood offices consist of:

Elders: The spiritual heads of the church who have the authority to perform administrations, lay on hands, and perform baby blessings. The Twelve Apostles are also chosen from among the Elders.
Priests: Authorized to baptize and serve the sacrament.
Teachers: Authorized to preach and assist the Elders.
(Note: While the office of Deacon exists on record, there have been no active Deacons in the church for a long time).

Another major difference is how men receive the priesthood. Priesthood callings are not treated as a coming-of-age milestone for young men; instead, every ordination requires a divine calling, spiritual witnesses, and the individual’s formal acceptance. Because not every father holds the office of Elder, baby blessings in the Church of Christ are typically performed by the older, ordained Elders of the congregation rather than the child’s father.

Local Autonomy and Global Reach

The Church of Christ is highly autonomous at the local level. As long as a local congregation has at least six members and one Elder, they are officially recognized and can elect their own pastor annually. These pastors have the freedom to set their own meeting schedules, which typically include Sunday worship and Wednesday evening prayer, testimony, or singing services.

While historically rooted in Independence, Missouri, the church has experienced surprising global growth since the late 1990s, expanding into the Philippines, East Africa, Mexico, and even establishing contacts in places like Argentina and Dubai. Though Malone estimates the total church population is relatively small, they utilize a secure online system so that isolated global members can vote during the church’s annual General Conference, held around April 6th every year.

Miracles and Spiritual Gifts

Malone shared powerful testimonies regarding the church’s reliance on divine intervention, particularly when calling leaders. Apostles can only be ordained during General Conference following a vote of acceptance by the people. Malone recounted a miraculous event where thirteen men were identified for the quorum of apostles through overwhelming spiritual witnesses. Tragically, one of the called men suffered a fatal heart attack shortly after. Soon after, another apostle in Mexico had a prophetic dream of a golden rope, which clarified the exact regional assignments and confirmed the final twelve men meant to serve.

Malone also shared a rare but electrifying firsthand experience of the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues. As a teenager in Phoenix, he witnessed an apostle named Don Hausenik speak in an unknown tongue and then provide the interpretation, an event that filled the room with a palpable, physical spiritual power.

Views on LDS Temple Ordinances

When asked about differences in worship, Malone frankly noted his confusion over LDS temple practices. The Church of Christ firmly rejects secret ordinances such as baptisms for the dead and eternal sealings, arguing that these practices are not found in the Book of Mormon. They believe all church functions should be public and see no need for a temple that operates in secrecy.

Don’t miss our other conversations on Hedrickites: https://gospeltangents.com/denominations/Hedrickites/

Gospel Tangents

Temple Lot Mystery and Otto Fetting (Daniel Malone 2 of 3)

Rick B — Thu, 12 Mar 2026 07:40:49 -0400

We focus heavily on the turbulent history of the physical temple lot in Independence, Missouri, and the controversial figure of apostle Otto Fetting. Daniel Malone, a Sunday school teacher for the Church of Christ (Temple Lot) gives his insights.

https://youtu.be/xqRZPoyaUqk

Don’t miss our other conversations on Hedrickites: https://gospeltangents.com/denominations/Hedrickites/

Gospel Tangents

The 1920s Influx and a Changing Church

During the 1920s, the RLDS Church experienced a major schism over “supreme directional control,” which led to a massive influx of former RLDS members joining the Church of Christ. This sudden growth swelled the Independence congregation from roughly 250 to nearly 600 members. Amidst an era of intense theological debates, the Church of Christ made a monumental organizational change in 1925: they completely abolished the office of a presiding elder (or president), choosing instead to be led collectively by a Quorum of Twelve Apostles. However, Malone candidly admits that the early church had a “horrible track record” of electing apostles, resulting in numerous leaders leaving and taking factions of the church with them.

Otto Fetting and the Masonic Blueprints

One of the most notable apostles from this era was Otto Fetting, who joined around 1927 and claimed to receive a series of revelations from John the Baptist. Fetting instructed the church to build a temple and provided blueprints for a massive 180-by-90-foot structure that Malone describes as looking like a Masonic lodge. This directly contradicted Joseph Smith’s earlier instructions to build the Independence temple to match the dimensions of the Kirtland temple, which was much smaller.

Fetting’s revelations eventually commanded that members be rebaptized, which was a bridge too far for the church. The Church of Christ ultimately rejected Fetting, redacted all of his revelations, and considers them non-binding8. Ironically, the 180-by-90-foot dimensions proposed by Fetting are the ones still marked out on the temple lot today.

The Cornerstone Controversy

While excavating the foundation for Fetting’s temple, workers unearthed cornerstones that are currently housed in the church’s visitor center. Malone expressed deep personal suspicion regarding these artifacts. While he acknowledges the possibility that Joseph Smith could have originally placed them there to mark the spot, Malone finds it highly convenient that they were discovered right as Fetting was attempting to legitimize his massive temple project, suggesting they could potentially be forgeries planted by Fetting.

Current Temple Plans and “Closed Communion”

Despite owning the property, the Church of Christ has absolutely no current plans to build a temple. They have money strictly earmarked and set aside for a temple, but they refuse to move forward unless they receive a direct, divine revelation from God commanding them to do so.

We also addressed a rumor regarding a Brazilian restoration group attempting to merge with the Church of Christ to gain voting rights over the temple lot. Malone dismissed the likelihood of this, explaining that the church practices “closed communion” and requires all new members to be rebaptized directly into their organization. In fact, they stopped accepting priesthood and baptismal transfers from the RLDS Church back in the 1920s or 1930s due to stark differences in belief.

Don’t miss our other conversations on the Temple Lot group: https://gospeltangents.com/denominations/Hedrickites/

Gospel Tangents

0:00 Otto Fetting/Temple Cornerstones 15:11 Brazil Group